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Letter Buses; post pics on letter buses or post
Topic Started: Mar 31 2006, 06:29 PM (4,725 Views)
NewFlyer8119
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i found a bunch of letter buses based on a 1944 ptc map from


www.phillytrolley.org

rts A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,Q,R,S,T,W,X,Y,Z



how long did they last?
when were they discontinued?
who rode them?
do you have any pics?

i really need those questions answered

=)
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Mark
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NewFlyer8119
Mar 31 2006, 11:29 PM
i found a bunch of letter buses based on a 1944 ptc map from


www.phillytrolley.org

rts A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,Q,R,S,T,W,X,Y,Z



how long did they last?
when were they discontinued?
who rode them?
do you have any pics?

i really need those questions answered

=)

Some of the letter routes still exist today.

C, G, H, J, K, L, R, XH

The fates of the others;

A - Became the 9, 27, and 32 in the early 80's

B - now the 14

D - now the 21

D-1 - merged into the 30

E - now the 65

F - abandoned in the 70's

H-1 - became the XH in the 50's

I - gone in the 50's, probably merged into the P

M - now the 68

N - now the 24

O - Merged into the Y in 1956, now the 70

P - absorbed into the 89

Q - abandoned in the late 60's

S - now the 18

T - split into the 28, 41, and reconstituted 84 in the early 80's. In the late 80's, the 41 became part of the 88.

U - merged into the 108 in the late 80's

V - Merged into the G in the 50's

W - split into the 19 and 67

X - became the 77

XA - became part of the 28

XB - became part of the 38 when the line was bustituted in the 50's.

XO - merged into the 57 in the early 80's.

Y - became the 70

Z - became the 35 in the early 60's

Unless otherwise noted, many of the lettered lines were numbered when SEPTA changed many of the routes in the 80's and 90's.
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NewFlyer8119
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thx for the info mark.


but its buzzkill that those letter buses were changed

what if the C,G,H,J,K,L,R,XH are changed into numbers?

what will they be

*demonstration

C=4
G=16
H/XH=81/82
J=41
K=85
L=72
R=78


can you imagine that?



oh and i still need some questions answered

couldnt the 121,125 keep their name as 45,49?

why couldnt they keep the old 77(boeing aviation to media; based on 1944 ptc map)?

why couldnt the 50 be saved and if it could be would 57 be in south philly

why was there two C buses:
snyder station to sheaff la apartments
and
allegheny station to fern rock

thats all i want to know now



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Septa3371CSX1
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Actually, Route Q (Delaware Avenue) did last into the 1970s. The U bus was not merged into the 108 until April 5th, 1993 (I know the exact date because I have that schedule). Also, here is the way I would renumber the lettered routes.

C = 41 (Nedro-South Philly Division) and 72 (Ogontz Division)
G = 49 (logical number since it fits in sequence with 46 and 52)
H/XH = 81 and 82
J = 69
K = 45
L = 51
R = 87

Routes 44, 45, and 49 were all invovled in the creation of the 124 and 125. The 45 is basically the 125 today. Routes 44 and 49 were operated split between Allegheny and Red Arrow along with the 45. The 45 was split into 124/125 and given to Red Arrow and Frontier. In exchange for the lost work, CTD was to be given the entire 44 and the 49 was renumbered to 121 so it could be handed over to Red Arrow. The TWU managed to successfully argue against moving the 49 to all suburban which is why the 121 is the number it is at Callowhill.

Route 77 Chester to Media became the 116 in 1986. Route 77 originally operated to Media via Bortondale. The route was changed to serve the developing area in Aston and provide service to Our Lady of Lords College (now Neumann College) and Lenni. The service still went to Media until it was replaced by the 110 in 1986 and the 77 became the 116. Route 77 did not serve Crozier Medical Center.

The 50 was basically a dying line when SEPTA took over. After the line was bustituted in 1980, the ridership declined. SEPTA decided to merge the line with the 57. The 57 replaced the 5 and the 50 in South Philly. Yes, if the 50 was still around today, the 57 would not be in South Philly.

Those two short C routes (Synder - Sheaff Lane and Allegheny - Fern Rock) were originally shuttle branches. The original C ran from Cheltenham to South Philadelphia. The branch to Fern Rock (now part of the Nedro Division) and Sheaff Lane Apartments spurs came along later. The Sheaff Lane Apartments spur later became a peak hour extension. It is now a shuttle operation and is planned for discontinuation and replacement by a rerouted 68 (via 20th and Pattison). I hope this answers your questions.
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NewFlyer8119
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i have another question



does anybody have pics of old schedules and if they do could they post them on this site?


mabye this will end my search for answers...
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trolleyk
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Route 16 was also operated on Street Road from Warminster to Bensalem. Several years later the Route 16 operated as supplement route out of Fern Rock for the Route Y later the Route 70.
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CACrafter88bk2504
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As for the 44, when the line was created by PTC in the 1950s, part was served by Red Arrow, the remainder was served by either Allegheny or the then dying Cumberland bus garage. The 44 ran from Ardmore(Suburban Square) & Bala(upper 52nd Street in the Wynnefield area) to Central Philadelphia(with limited stops on Market Street to City Hall, then non stop to 5th). The 44 started as a rush hour only line back in the 1950s, then weekday & Saturday service started to appear by the time SEPTA took over in 1968. Sunday service on the 44 didn't start to appear until the early 1980s.

By the time SEPTA took over, the 44 was operated entirely from Allegheny depot(as was the 44G, which later became the 49).

The 44G ran throughout the day during the week however no service was provided on this line on weekends & holidays. The 44G went over the same route as the current 121.

As for the 45(now 125), weekend service didn't appear on this line until the early 1980s. Sunday service didn't appear on the 45 until the mid 1980s.
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NewFlyer8119
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is anyone listening to me?


i could use some pics of old schedules about now....
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Mark
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CACrafter88bk2504
Apr 2 2006, 03:55 AM


By the time SEPTA took over, the 44 was operated entirely from Allegheny depot(as was the 44G, which later became the 49).


At the time of the SEPTA takeover of PTC[1968], the 44 was still a joint operation between SEPTA[PTC] and Red Arrow. When SEPTA absorbed Red Arrow, the route was on of three with joint operation between the City Division and the Red Arrow Division [the other routes were the 44G and the 45]. The CTD portion was operated out of Allegheney Depot, and of course Victory had the Red Arrow portion.

In the late 80's Allegheney gave up their portion of the 44/44g to Callowhill[due to the depot's reconstruction], keeping their part of the 45 until the big 1990 changes that created the 124/125. During a couple of the Christmas Shopping seasons in the late 80's, it was common to see Volvo Articulateds on the 45, especially on Saturdays and Sundays.
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CVPI19
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I was told about the 27 and 32 being route A. I heard that the A express trips evolved into Route 27, while A local trips evolved into Route 32 I was not told that the 9 was part of Route A I always thought it was called the 9 and were the 33 and 48 lettered routes once or no SEPTA created them after taking over PTC in 1960s?
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