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Letter Buses; post pics on letter buses or post
Topic Started: Mar 31 2006, 06:29 PM (4,728 Views)
MichaelB
Transit Fan
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The 9 AND the 27 were both created in 1984 out of the old Route A Express, while as we know the 32 was the successor to the Route A Local & given the 32 designator also in 1984. The A Express had two route branches, via Ridge Av (now the 9) or via Henry Av (now the 27). The Henry Av. branch of the A Express never went beyond Barren Hill & was extended to Plymouth Meeting Mall only after it became the 27.

As for the 33 & 48, both of these were known by those numbers all the way back to PRT days. They both started life as trolley lines in the early 1900s & were converted to bus (along with many, many other routes) in the mid-to-late 1950s after the National City Lines takeover of PTC. There is a small section of Route 33 trackage now visible (thanks to street repaving work) in the pavement in the 1800 block of Arch Street. It has not seen a streetcar in over 50 years.

Although the original PRT practice was to assign numbers to trolley lines & letters to bus lines, all trolley lines which were converted to bus retained their route numbers & none were ever reassigned a letter.

Michael B.
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NeoArtic7101
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rest in peace to all AN440's that ran the Philadelphia area streets
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NewFlyer8119
Apr 1 2006, 03:06 PM
thx for the info mark.


but its buzzkill that those letter buses were changed

what if the C,G,H,J,K,L,R,XH are changed into numbers?

what will they be

*demonstration

C=4
G=16
H/XH=81/82
J=41
K=85
L=72
R=78


can you imagine that?



oh and i still need some questions answered

couldnt the 121,125 keep their name as 45,49?

why couldnt they keep the old 77(boeing aviation to media; based on 1944 ptc map)?

why couldnt the 50 be saved and if it could be would 57 be in south philly

why was there two C buses:
snyder station to sheaff la apartments
and
allegheny station to fern rock

thats all i want to know now

Is ther anything in the future regarding SEPTA changing the letter routes into number routes? And here is my proposal:

C Nedro Division : 71 and it can absorb the 71 Navy Yard shuttle
C Ogontz Division : 72
G : 41
H : 62
J : I say eliminate that line. What is the use of that line? If anything, people either ride the K or the 26 so I say that the 25/73 can absorb the J east of Arrott Terminal while the 89 can absorb the J and bring it into Germantown, but terminating the line at Germantown and Chelten with the 65 instead of Chelten and Wissahickon.
K : 4
L : 16
R : 85
XH : 63 (we forgot that there is no more Rt. 63)

I hope this isn't too off the wall... I feel the proposal could work better this way because:

The 71 runs on Broad Street and basically is the old C/17 service to the Navy Yard, so that makes sense. For the K to be renamed the 4, the 3 and 5 runs out of Frankford, so it would be a sequence and the same with the R being the 85 and the H/XH being the 62/63. Also the 89 can still be a Frankford route and there would not really be any need of that many hayride buses (aka the Eldorado's) at Midvale except on the 35 and maybe one or two on the 77.
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NeoArtic7101
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rest in peace to all AN440's that ran the Philadelphia area streets
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
NeoArtic7101
Jun 8 2006, 10:21 PM
NewFlyer8119
Apr 1 2006, 03:06 PM
thx for the info mark.


but its buzzkill that those letter buses were changed

what if the C,G,H,J,K,L,R,XH are changed into numbers?

what will they be

*demonstration

C=4
G=16
H/XH=81/82
J=41
K=85
L=72
R=78


can you imagine that?



oh and i still need some questions answered

couldnt the 121,125 keep their name as 45,49?

why couldnt they keep the old 77(boeing aviation to media; based on 1944 ptc map)?

why couldnt the 50 be saved and if it could be would 57 be in south philly

why was there two C buses:
snyder station to sheaff la apartments
and
allegheny station to fern rock

thats all i want to know now

Is ther anything in the future regarding SEPTA changing the letter routes into number routes? And here is my proposal:

C Nedro Division : 71 and it can absorb the 71 Navy Yard shuttle
C Ogontz Division : 72
G : 41
H : 62
J : I say eliminate that line. What is the use of that line? If anything, people either ride the K or the 26 so I say that the 25/73 can absorb the J east of Arrott Terminal while the 89 can absorb the J and bring it into Germantown, but terminating the line at Germantown and Chelten with the 65 instead of Chelten and Wissahickon.
K : 4
L : 16
R : 85
XH : 63 (we forgot that there is no more Rt. 63)

I hope this isn't too off the wall... I feel the proposal could work better this way because:

The 71 runs on Broad Street and basically is the old C/17 service to the Navy Yard, so that makes sense. For the K to be renamed the 4, the 3 and 5 runs out of Frankford, so it would be a sequence and the same with the R being the 85 and the H/XH being the 62/63. Also the 89 can still be a Frankford route and there would not really be any need of that many hayride buses (aka the Eldorado's) at Midvale except on the 35 and maybe one or two on the 77.

let me quote myself because i found out that the 61 express is going to be the 62... lol the HXH can be the 82/83.
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Mark
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NeoArtic7101
Jun 8 2006, 10:54 PM
NeoArtic7101
 
 
let me quote myself because i found out that the 61 express is going to be the 62... lol the HXH can be the 82/83.

Ok, does anyone remember the ORIGINAL Route 62?

Although I never rode this line, I have seen it on vintage PTC maps, and it has a semi-legend in this area.

Can you describe the route, and what happened to it?

I will have the answer tommorrow.
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MichaelB
Transit Fan
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Although I never rode the original Route 62 either, I can state that it was a shuttle "dinky" trolley line that ran between Darby & Yeadon Loops. What was the routing? Well, if you have ever ridden the Route 13 extended trips between Yeadon & Darby, that was pretty the entire 62. The entire line was only 3/4 mile in length! I recall from reading Harold Cox's books that one major reason why it was operated as a shuttle for as long as it was related to the fact that for many years, either the Borough of Darby or Borough of Yeadon (I'm not sure offhand which one) required a special operating license for each streetcar in the borough. PRT & later PTC, decided to operate the 62 as a shuttle so that they would only have to pay the extra license fee for the minimum number of cars!

For many years the 62 was operated with Birney cars & only went to PCC operation when the Birneys were scrapped after World War II. It was finally merged into the 13 by SEPTA in 1971.

Michael B.
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Mark
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MichaelB
Jun 11 2006, 01:39 AM
Although I never rode the original Route 62 either, I can state that it was a shuttle "dinky" trolley line that ran between Darby & Yeadon Loops.  What was the routing?  Well, if you have ever ridden the Route 13 extended trips between Yeadon & Darby, that was pretty the entire 62. The entire line was only 3/4 mile in length!  I recall from reading Harold Cox's books that one major reason why it was operated as a shuttle for as long as it was related to the fact that for many years, either the Borough of Darby or Borough of Yeadon (I'm not sure offhand which one) required a special operating license for each streetcar in the borough.  PRT & later PTC, decided to operate the 62 as a shuttle so that they would only have to pay the extra license fee for the minimum number of cars!   

For many years the 62 was operated with Birney cars & only went to PCC operation when the Birneys were scrapped after World War II.  It was finally merged into the 13 by SEPTA in 1971.

Michael B.

You're mostly correct about the 62 trolley. The one area where you were wrong is the type of equipment used on the line. At one time it used Nearsides 7451/52 on the route. Then it used 2 Peter Witt cars [8000's] That lasted until the 1955 then the PCC's were used.
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MichaelB
Transit Fan
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Thanks for setting me straight on the 62's rolling stock, Mark! Good to learn something new every day... :rolleyes:

Michael B.
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ctrabs74
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NeoArtic7101
Jun 8 2006, 06:21 PM
C Nedro Division : 71 and it can absorb the 71 Navy Yard shuttle

J : I say eliminate that line. What is the use of that line? If anything, people either ride the K or the 26 so I say that the 25/73 can absorb the J east of Arrott Terminal while the 89 can absorb the J and bring it into Germantown, but terminating the line at Germantown and Chelten with the 65 instead of Chelten and Wissahickon.

The 71 was created out of a CMAQ grant awarded to the City (or something along those lines), so as long as there's that grant in effect, the 71 weekday service won't be adjusted.
***
AFA the J goes, you have completely different markets for the J, K, and 26 between Chelten Av and Roosevelt Blvd.

The J turns off Chelten at Baynton St and reaches the Blvd via Belfield, Lindley, and Fisher Av, serving the Logan section of the city (and the Logan Station on the BSS).

The K heads further up Chelten Av to Wyncote Av and 66 Av (doesn't connect to the BSS), reaching Frankford via 5 St, Godfrey Av, and Adams Av, serving East Oak Lane, Olney, and Crescentville.

The 26 turns off Chelten at Chew Av, operating via Olney Av and (on the limited service to Bridge-Pratt) Tabor Rd, Magee Av, and Harbison Av. The 26 is mainly designed to connect Olney with Germantown; service east of Olney is simply an extension of the base route.

Telling people in Logan that they can take the K or 26 instead of the J isn't worthwhile, nor is feasible.

Now, having another line take over the J east of Arrott Terminal is a possibility, but the question out there is how does that affect the 25 or 73. Both of those routes have a common routing along Bridge between Frankford and Torresdale Av (the 73 continues south past Bridesburg Station towards Richmond St). It doesn't look like there's a lot of traffic on either of those segments, but people in the Northeast tend to be very protective of their bus routes...
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Mark
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ctrabs74
Jul 24 2006, 07:30 PM
NeoArtic7101
Jun 8 2006, 06:21 PM
C Nedro Division : 71 and it can absorb the 71 Navy Yard shuttle

J : I say eliminate that line. What is the use of that line? If anything, people either ride the K or the 26 so I say that the 25/73 can absorb the J east of Arrott Terminal while the 89 can absorb the J and bring it into Germantown, but terminating the line at Germantown and Chelten with the 65 instead of Chelten and Wissahickon.

The 71 was created out of a CMAQ grant awarded to the City (or something along those lines), so as long as there's that grant in effect, the 71 weekday service won't be adjusted.
***
AFA the J goes, you have completely different markets for the J, K, and 26 between Chelten Av and Roosevelt Blvd.

The J turns off Chelten at Baynton St and reaches the Blvd via Belfield, Lindley, and Fisher Av, serving the Logan section of the city (and the Logan Station on the BSS).

The K heads further up Chelten Av to Wyncote Av and 66 Av (doesn't connect to the BSS), reaching Frankford via 5 St, Godfrey Av, and Adams Av, serving East Oak Lane, Olney, and Crescentville.

The 26 turns off Chelten at Chew Av, operating via Olney Av and (on the limited service to Bridge-Pratt) Tabor Rd, Magee Av, and Harbison Av. The 26 is mainly designed to connect Olney with Germantown; service east of Olney is simply an extension of the base route.

Telling people in Logan that they can take the K or 26 instead of the J isn't worthwhile, nor is feasible.

Now, having another line take over the J east of Arrott Terminal is a possibility, but the question out there is how does that affect the 25 or 73. Both of those routes have a common routing along Bridge between Frankford and Torresdale Av (the 73 continues south past Bridesburg Station towards Richmond St). It doesn't look like there's a lot of traffic on either of those segments, but people in the Northeast tend to be very protective of their bus routes...

You can't eliminate the J because it serves a part of Germantown [Belfield Ave] that's not readily accesible to the 23 [on Germantown Ave], or the 18/26 [on Chew Ave]. Belfield Ave is about a 1/2 to 3/4 ths of a mile from both arterial streets, and that would strand a lot of passengers in that area [the R7 Wister Station is useless in that area except to get to Center City].

You could reroute the 26 over that portion, but that would overload the 18 between Chelten Ave and Olney Terminal [the 26 is an effective overflow valve for the 18].

So leave the J as is, and see if we could improve the service on that line. the hourly headways on nights and weekends is LUDICROUS!!!!! :angry:
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NeoArtic7101
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rest in peace to all AN440's that ran the Philadelphia area streets
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I guess no one seen the part where I said that the 89 can absorb into the J and serve Germantown. Not eliminating the J altogether.
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