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| Letter Buses; post pics on letter buses or post | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2006, 06:29 PM (4,726 Views) | |
| CACrafter88bk2504 | Apr 3 2007, 02:51 PM Post #31 |
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Transit Historian
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That map @ 69th Street(West Terminal) is a SEPTA City Transit Division Map dating back to 1990. Whenever you are going to ride the 99 to Phoenixville, stop at the King of Prussia Plaza. In the bus shelter, there is a map(SEPTA's Suburban Transit Division Map) that dates back to 1989. The map is so old, it's practically white. |
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| Mark | Apr 3 2007, 09:16 PM Post #32 |
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Advanced Transit Fan
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The A bus had 4 different service patterns, [2 local and 2 express]. If you lived south of Lyceum Ave, you were certain to get the "A Local" and the "A Express". Above Lyceum Ave, and you had to roll the dice on which A bus you were getting. And also, it depended on the time of day. You had a choice of an Upper Ridge Express or Local, or an Upper Henry Local or Express. According to a SEPTA schedule issued in the late 70's, during the AM rush, The A express ran ran SB to Center City on Ridge and Henry, but Locals ran NB to Andorra or Barren Hill. Middays, buses on both Ridge and Henry alternated between Express and Locals. PM Rush Expresses ran on Both Ridge and Henry NB, But Locals ran Southbound [SB A exp buses stopped running at 3 pm. NB A expresses started at 10 am]. Evening A expresses ran NB only split between Ridge and Henry, SB service was Locals only running on Ridge Ave only. Of course there were the NB locals [AM rush] and SB locals [PM Rush] that ran for the benefit of Roxborough and Saul high school students, and the Roman/Hallahan charters as well. Confused? That was one of the reasons SEPTA basically simplified the entire mess and created the 9, 27, and 32. The 9 took over the A Express and Local on Ridge Ave. Also the 9 was routed to use Chestnut and Walnut St to expand the distribution of Roxborough passengers through Center City[the A stayed on Broad St] The 27 took over and improved greatly the Henry Ave Express and Local [Upper Henry Ave never had late-night and Sunday service]. The 32 took over the route below Lyceum Ave and through N.Philly and the Art Museum area. |
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| ms1076 | Jul 3 2007, 07:39 AM Post #33 |
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Occasional Rider
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What information would you have about the Route X? |
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| CACrafter88bk2504 | Jul 3 2007, 05:57 PM Post #34 |
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Transit Historian
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The A along Upper Henry Avenue: What was the latest it ran on weeknights & Saturdays? The way Upper Roxorough & Andorra are set up, I'm thinking that after 9:00pm, the typical rider depending on the then Route A that resided in the 7300 block of Hiola Road or the 7700 block of Lawnton Avenue(Upper Roxborough) ran out of options huh? |
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| Mark | Jul 3 2007, 07:43 PM Post #35 |
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Advanced Transit Fan
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The X bus originally ran from Mermaid Loop to Jenkintown. It started in the 50's and they used the "Davy Crocketts" GM buses in the 10 and 1100's. The route's paltry ridership did not support all-day service so it was reduced to about 3 or 4 round trips each AM and PM rush hours. In the early 90's SEPTA and Montgomery County agreed to restructure the route. The part of the route on Willow Grove Ave and Glenside Ave through Laverock and Edge Hill sections of Cheltenham Twp. was dumped in favor of routing the bus on Cheltenham Ave and Easton Rd between Willow Grove and Glenside Aves. This routing serves three traffic generators [Cedarbrook Mall, Arcadia U, and Bishop Mc Devitt HS], and the bus was rerouted to start at the Chestnut Hill Loop, and extended via Jenkintown Rd and Twp. Line Rd and Cottman Ave to Roosevelt Blvd [SEPTA originally wanted to run this route on Rising Sun and Tyson Ave between 5 Points and Roosevelt Mall, but the NIMBYs on Tyson Ave said no way.]. All of those changes I described turned the X bus into the present day 77 bus. The 77 has good ridership numbers, although it is skewed by the fact that it shares the route with the 70 on Cottman Ave and as usual, most crosstown riders will take whatever comes first. It is not an unusual sight to see a 77 with SRO crowds, especially during the school year. When the 77 started it used the 35 foot Neoplans [BP] models, presently it uses Eldorados or Midvale Dispatchers get smart and put either NABIs Of Flyers on the line. You tend to see the full-size buses on weekdays. |
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| Septa3371CSX1 | Jul 3 2007, 08:07 PM Post #36 |
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Septa3371CSX1
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I seen 40 footers on the 77 on weekdays as well. I'm sure some of you may remember from reading Creighton Rabs' site that someone in late 2000/early 2001 decided to tie in a run on the 77 with the 22. The 22 was just about all artics at that time. So what showed up on the 77? A 60 foot Neoplan Articulated! Talk about exagerrating claims of low ridership! |
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| ms1076 | Jul 3 2007, 10:24 PM Post #37 |
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Occasional Rider
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Would you happen to have a schedule/timetable/map of the old Route X? Or know of a place where I can find old or abandoned Septa Bus Routes? Thanks |
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| philabob1 | Nov 6 2007, 11:29 AM Post #38 |
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Foamer
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Clarifications and questions on this. D-1 - this kind of went by the wayside when 42 was extended to operate via the Civic Center full time. Alternate 42's served the Civic Center starting toward the end of the PTC era and the route became full-time in 1970 or so. 30 was extended to pick up 14 and the remnants of D-1 in the early 80's as I recall. H-1 was folded into the XH but the routes existed separately for a while. I think H-1 disappeared in the mid-60's when the XH began operating to Broad & Erie full time, instead of terminating at Germantown & Chelten. I - where did this run? Didn't think there was an I route. (I know Red Arrow had one, but didn't think PTC did.) Q - this survived until about 1973-74 as I recall, although over the years it was greatly reduced to weekdays only, then weekday peaks. I remember riding it a few times - if you can remember when Delaware Ave was full of railroad tracks, you would know how rough a ride this was (even with air-suspension buses!). I think the second order of Flxibles had Q signs on them. Also, for some reason, I recall at the end that Q came out of Allegheny Depot, not sure why (it was a stable at Southern for many years). When Q quit, the 5 added the Packer Marine Terminal runs in the peaks, which survive on the 57 today. |
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| philabob1 | Nov 7 2007, 10:16 AM Post #39 |
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Foamer
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I didn't start riding on a regular basis until the year after the A was split up, but my recollections before the 9/27/32 conversion is this. The Upper Henry runs (both local and express) went to Andorra and the Upper Ridge runs went to Barren Hill or Summit as a rule. Upper Henry expresses quit after the PM peak and a handful of locals ran after that, but I don't know the exact time it stopped. There was no express service on Upper Henry on weekends and, I believe, no local service on Sundays as well. On Upper Ridge, there was 7-day service but no expresses on Sunday, and I believe locals ran to Summit on Saturdays when expresses were operating. The Upper Ridge expresses had three starting points - Barren Hill, Summit and Fountain. There was also a variation that entered/exited the Expressway at Green Lane and ran via Main, Leverington, Umbria and Domino to Ridge where it followed the regular route to Summit or Barren Hill. Locals did not turn at Lyceum as they do now (the R used the 32's layover spot in those days, coming up Ridge and Manayunk and looping through the 32's route on Green Lane and Ridge to Lyceum, although they were signed 'Ridge-Green La'). Locals went to Summit or Barren Hill if they were Upper Ridge and Andorra if Upper Henry. It always surprised me that local runs to Summit and Andorra were A-slash, but I don't recall the expresses running as -slash going to these terminals. Many weekday locals went to 30th & Allegheny (usually signed for Allegheny Ave), a pattern that didn't remain when the 32 took over the service. When 32 began operation, its pattern was alternate trips to Andorra in the midday (others went to Lyceum), all trips to Lyceum in the peaks, and all sevice to Andorra on weekends. This was a compromise to East Falls residents who wanted their one-seat rides to Andorra preserved. The Andorra service ended in '99 when the various modifications of 9 and 35 were begun. One question I have is how transfers worked between local and express (if they did). Operators have told me that there were lots of transfers between locals and expresses at Ridge & Roxborough, where the two met, a place that riders from lower Roxb and East Falls could get an express after riding 'backwards' on the local. As I recall, the transfers were issued with 'A' in the block (no mention of local or express), so I always wondered how this worked and how transfer misuse was addressed. As you noted, riders between Ridge and Henry north of Gates, up until roughly Summit, have a long walk to either main road depending on where they are (I'm in this group, a half-block from Henry but 1/3 mile from Ridge, and it's not a flat walk!). I think this was the motivation for full-time Upper Henry service when the 9/27/32 was created. (For once, SEPTA was helping users...!) In my experience, those who used the express (and it's been 22 years since the split, so they're getting to be 'old heads') think the 9/27 is a poor compromise. 9 loses a lot of time in Center City between congestion at the 30th St area and slow movement on Chestnut/Walnut. 27 often has trouble on Manayunk Ave between the narrow roadway and the grades, and its need to go all the way south to Washington Ave causes many delays as well. |
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| ms1076 | Nov 7 2007, 12:46 PM Post #40 |
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Occasional Rider
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Does anyone remember that exact destination signs for the old Letter Routes For instance. I remember the Y with the Flxibles Y - 11th & Nedro Torresdale Ave & Fern Rock Sta Cottman Loop Does any remember the destination signs for any off the routes that no longer exist? |
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7:53 PM Jul 10