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What would you change in the STD?
Topic Started: Jun 18 2008, 03:14 PM (1,601 Views)
Van2006ko
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From what I've read, SEPTA has outgrown the usage of 30 foot buses on the routes which they mainly used them on. Whether or not this holds substances remains debatable. The batch to replace the Eldorados may be 35 foot. Knowing SEPTA they would be DE35LFRs!! Then again, this claim was made slightly before gas became a problem.
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Septa_kid
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Gas affected alot of things
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Tritransit Area
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Van2006ko
Aug 3 2008, 10:54 AM
From what I've read, SEPTA has outgrown the usage of 30 foot buses on the routes which they mainly used them on. Whether or not this holds substances remains debatable. The batch to replace the Eldorados may be 35 foot. Knowing SEPTA they would be DE35LFRs!! Then again, this claim was made slightly before gas became a problem.
Yeah, on many routes (310, 316), the Dorados are just overstuffed (especially the 310 and 316). Thirty-five footers would be great, although arguably 30fters could be used to replace the Champions, particularly since all the contractors can now handle the real heavy duty buses.

But no more New Flyers, please! I can't believe you guys aren't already sick of them. Every route I ride now uses a New Flyer, even the 27!
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Mr. Transit
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Maybe now that Gillig is under new ownership, they'll look more seriously at bidding on future SEPTA contracts.
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ctrabs74
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Considering that Gillig has made inroads into Pittsburgh in recent years, then I'd say it's an outside shot to see 30- or 35-ft Gilligs running for SEPTA.

That said, as the old saying goes (at least as far as replacing the Lawnmowers and Chumps), "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The smartest thing SEPTA has ever done in the 13 years that I've lived down here was introduce the New Flyers.

Having just said that, it just occured to me that with the recent retirements of the 40-ft Neos, I've seen the entire SEPTA fleet cycle through. When I first moved down here in 1995, it was the RTS and the Neos (and it seemed as though the RTS' were always breaking down once they arrived in West Chester).
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Van2006ko
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Aug 3 2008, 08:41 PM
Van2006ko
Aug 3 2008, 10:54 AM
From what I've read, SEPTA has outgrown the usage of 30 foot buses on the routes which they mainly used them on. Whether or not this holds substances remains debatable. The batch to replace the Eldorados may be 35 foot. Knowing SEPTA they would be DE35LFRs!! Then again, this claim was made slightly before gas became a problem.
Yeah, on many routes (310, 316), the Dorados are just overstuffed (especially the 310 and 316). Thirty-five footers would be great, although arguably 30fters could be used to replace the Champions, particularly since all the contractors can now handle the real heavy duty buses.

But no more New Flyers, please! I can't believe you guys aren't already sick of them. Every route I ride now uses a New Flyer, even the 27!
Well I'm not sick of the New Flyers as far as diversification. The only thing which keeps me interested in them is their various type of engine combos which they sport, as well as their other differences such as flooring....

Out of the all of the engine Combos, I still think the Cummins ISL with the Allison/or ZF is the best!! The DD50 EGR has been proven to be very unreliable in only two years time these an inundated amount of soot could be seen coming out of the exhaust pipes or around the exhaust sections!! Whereas the ISL is bipolar the opposite which offers generally better accelaration as well as less smoke!!

That being said, I'm not a fan of the hybrids though, and must say from this order and on will be the start of me losing interest in the SEPTA fleet in general!!
Edited by Van2006ko, Aug 9 2008, 06:46 PM.
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CACrafter88bk2504
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From my days as a toddler(1983-85, 2 to 4 years old), I was in love with the Neoplan AKs & BDs(8285-8584). These buses, for the most part, lasted into 1997(a handful assigned to Frankford lasted into 2000). Then the Volvos.

As for the artics & NABIs, I was never interested in them from the jump(except for the 5000s assigned to Callowhill & the first few NABIs that Luzerne got in 1996). Likewise for the New Flyers. When the 5700s started arriving at Midvale in April 2004, I payed specific attention to the engine & acceleration. As it stands, the 5713-5950 batch of New Flyers are the only group of buses that I still have interest in.

Anyway, I stand by my suggestion for an extension of the 105 out to Thorndale(with the route cut back to Ardmore & with a rerouted 106 to cover the Overbrook Park/Overbrook/Wynnewood segments that are currently served by 105, & the 106 would be completely taken off of Haverford Avenue & would no longer serve Penn Wynne).

The 105 would also cover the Lionville section that is currently served by the 204. The 105 would absorb all Krapfs service provided on their route A.

Regretfully, to speed service up on the 105, the route would only stop at major intersections throughout the entire route & serve all the train stations(the 105 parallels the R5 from Wynnewood to Paoli). Lightly used stops would be eliminated.

With that said & told, Do any of you think it's possible to see Sunday service implemented on the 106 through Overbrook Park (via 75th, Woodbine, 77th, City), Overbrook(via City, Lancaster, Malvern), Wynnewood(via Lankenau Hopsital & Wynnewood Shopping Center), as well as Sunday service to be reinstated on the 103, crossrouted with the 106 & run on a 90 minute headway?

Sunday service would run on the 105, with a 90 minute headway.

Any suggestions? In Chester County, something is better than nothing, as long as it isn't an Eldorado or Champion.


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Tritransit Area
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Van2006ko
Aug 9 2008, 06:42 PM
Tritransit Area
Aug 3 2008, 08:41 PM
Van2006ko
Aug 3 2008, 10:54 AM
From what I've read, SEPTA has outgrown the usage of 30 foot buses on the routes which they mainly used them on. Whether or not this holds substances remains debatable. The batch to replace the Eldorados may be 35 foot. Knowing SEPTA they would be DE35LFRs!! Then again, this claim was made slightly before gas became a problem.
Yeah, on many routes (310, 316), the Dorados are just overstuffed (especially the 310 and 316). Thirty-five footers would be great, although arguably 30fters could be used to replace the Champions, particularly since all the contractors can now handle the real heavy duty buses.

But no more New Flyers, please! I can't believe you guys aren't already sick of them. Every route I ride now uses a New Flyer, even the 27!
Well I'm not sick of the New Flyers as far as diversification. The only thing which keeps me interested in them is their various type of engine combos which they sport, as well as their other differences such as flooring....

Out of the all of the engine Combos, I still think the Cummins ISL with the Allison/or ZF is the best!! The DD50 EGR has been proven to be very unreliable in only two years time these an inundated amount of soot could be seen coming out of the exhaust pipes or around the exhaust sections!! Whereas the ISL is bipolar the opposite which offers generally better accelaration as well as less smoke!!

That being said, I'm not a fan of the hybrids though, and must say from this order and on will be the start of me losing interest in the SEPTA fleet in general!!
Don't worry - once the 2004s are overhauled you'll have 218 more buses with ISL/ZFs to enjoy...

At the moment, I always try to get hybrids on the BSO since they are different from what i usually ride. In fact, any Southern New Flyer is a change for me. However, as I've seen lately that the majority of my bus travels on SEPTA have been involving New Flyers rather than NABIs or artics or Neos, I've kinda been bored with SEPTA bus fanning, or bus fanning in the area in general (with DART's excessive Gillig Advantage fleet - I remember when those were hard buses to get - and NJT's proposal to replace the entire transit bus fleet with NABI 416s).

I'll miss the ZFers - nothing beats a screaming ZFer with a lead-footed driver flying up Henry Ave at night.

Yeah, the New Flyer fleet is "diverse" but I really have to travel to experience that. Otherwise, I enjoy Midvale's enormous fleet of repowered 5600s (and Frontier's 9 5600s) as well as typical ZFers 90 percent of the time. Thank goodness for the El Dorados and the - er, Champions, to break the sea of New Flyers.

Unfortunately, WMATA's about to beat SEPTA by having the most diverse fleet of New Flyer 40LFs out there. And they don't have nearly as many New Flyers as we do...

In regards to suburban transit improvements, why not purchase suburban buses for the King of Prussia routes and other long routes (like the 98, 104, etc). Also, since apparently Comly can run artics on EVERY BLOCK OF THE 14 (I dunno how that ended up working), there should be no reason why a few artics can't go to Victory for overcrowded routes like the 104 and 113. DC runs artics in suburban division depots, why can't we? Either that or give the 113 more frequent service.

In regards to the 105, please note that traffic on Lancaster Ave can make the 105 VERY unreliable - heck, as long as I lived in the area, I never expected the bus to be on time. Extending it to Lionville and Thorndale (why not Coatesville?) would prove to be problematic in my opinion, especially during rush hour. Remember, the longer a route is, the more unreliable it can become. Also, I must admit that I disagree with your proposal to eliminate stops on the 105. With the R5 next door, people take the 105 not only as the cheaper alternative, but for stops that are closer to the destination. Also, exempting this route from the suburban flag policy is not quite cool.

In general, here's a gripe about your Dorado/Champion statement. What is so wrong with having these provide service? Why waste capacity - a lot of you upset when an artic is used on a run that generally carry a less than full artic load. Besides, by having the smaller buses on routes that warrant them, you can access areas where putting a 40fter would just be laughable. I saw a lot of this in Dover, DE, where all of the buses are 30ft long. They made tight loops in apartment parking lots and shopping centers. If you can use a smaller bus to bring people closer to the front door (without it being a waste) why not use the smaller buses? Besides, a route like the 128 should have 40ft buses banned from the route with those tight (and blind!) turns and going through neighborhood streets. Besides, the Dorados are kinda cool buses anyway, and have a bit of charm that's lost in the rest of the fleet.
Edited by Tritransit Area, Aug 9 2008, 08:38 PM.
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ctrabs74
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Jun 20 2008, 10:03 AM
ctrabs74
Jun 19 2008, 12:02 PM
I would also get rid of the cutaways altogether in favor of 30-ft Optimas.

Why 30-ft Optimas?

Go with the New Flyer D30LF,DE30LF,D30LFR or DE30LFR.
I offered the Optimas as a suggestion since, IIRC, they are 99" wide, compared to 102" for the New Flyers.

As much as I love the NFI's (views re: new hybrids notwithstanding), the Optimas with the 3 fewer inches of width, would be a better fit for routes such as the 35, with it's notoriously narrow streets through Manayunk.
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Jayayess1190
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Aug 3 2008, 08:41 PM
Van2006ko
Aug 3 2008, 10:54 AM
From what I've read, SEPTA has outgrown the usage of 30 foot buses on the routes which they mainly used them on. Whether or not this holds substances remains debatable. The batch to replace the Eldorados may be 35 foot. Knowing SEPTA they would be DE35LFRs!! Then again, this claim was made slightly before gas became a problem.
Yeah, on many routes (310, 316), the Dorados are just overstuffed (especially the 310 and 316). Thirty-five footers would be great, although arguably 30fters could be used to replace the Champions, particularly since all the contractors can now handle the real heavy duty buses.

But no more New Flyers, please! I can't believe you guys aren't already sick of them. Every route I ride now uses a New Flyer, even the 27!
I love me some overhauls! ^_^
Edited by Jayayess1190, Aug 31 2008, 01:22 PM.
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