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ElDorados in Callowhill/Southern?; Route 30 & former route 63
Topic Started: Nov 13 2008, 09:05 AM (1,775 Views)
philabob1
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CACrafter88bk2504
Nov 16 2008, 03:52 PM
Up until National City Lines(NCL) took over & implemented a policy that dozens of streetcar routes in Philadelphia be converted to bus routes, the 63 was a streetcar line that was Philadelphia's first electric streetcar line, if I am not mistaken, in 1892. This was the Bainbridge & Catherine line.

The routing of the 63 as a bus route was identical to that of the 63 as a streetcar route. The 63 was dieselized in 1955.

The 64 was a streetcar route as well. The 64 did not run out to West Philadelphia. As a streetcar line, the 64 terminated somewhere in Grays Ferry(34th & Wharton)? The 64 became dieselized in 1956 & used some of the last Nearside streetcars in the PTC system, of that day.

If I am not mistaken, the 63 & 64 were combined once before either after both were dieselized in the 1955-1956 timeframe or sometime during the early years of SEPTA.

The current portion of the 64 that runs in West Philadelphia(46th, 48th Streets from the Millcreek area down to Woodland depot) was serviced by a route implemented by PTC called the V, which under SEPTA,later became the 49.

The 49 in West Philadelphia & the 64 in South Philadelphia were combined in 1982, around the same time when the 59b became the 58 & the D-1 & 30 were combined.

Around that time(correct me if I am wrong), the 63 was "re-vamped" in implemented again.

The V was a Haverford garage route. The 49 was a Callowhill based route. If I am not mistaken, when the 63 was eliminated(or combined) with the 64 in the form of a bus route, this(these) route(routes) came from Jackson garage(Southern as time progressed).

In 1982, The 63 & 64 were split with Southern & Callowhill depot. Ya'll know the rest. The 64 is a route exclusively assigned to Southern.

Beetelebombers & Neo AKs, BMs, & CD's covered the entire service. As the Neo EBs came on the scene @ Callowhill, Callowhill probably threw in a few on both routes. Southern kept their Neo EBs exclusively for the 37 & possibly, the 68. Southern has 3212-3236 as opposed to Callowhill, which received 3132-3171.
A couple of clarifications.

64's terminus before its extension into West Phila was 33rd & Reed.

64 took over the westbound 63 only in the early 60's. This branch ran to 27th & Ellsworth where it connected to the eastbound 64. The route signs said '64 via Cath' (Catharine St).

63 was created in the early 80's as a two-direction route mainly on Christian St as the map in the previous post shows. Its eastern terminal was 2nd & Washington (same as 64, although for many years 64 carried 'Front St' signs for the east direction), laying over on Washington Ave alongside the Engine 3 firehouse. 63's west terminal was 30th & Grays Ferry and I believe it looped in the shopping center there.

When Pier 70 opened in 1992 or so both 63 and 64 were extended to serve it.

63 was always a weak line, with no easy connection to the Broad St subway, but it was a political hot potato (much like 47M and 35), so it kept going until SEPTA finally worked up the nerve to cut it.

63 was the first electric trolley line in the City.

Not sure if 64 ever ran out of Jackson depot - 63 may have, but somewhere in that 1956 time frame Southern was renovated to become a bus garage and Jackson closed.
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Septa_kid
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Now I wish the would bring the 63 back so that I can only take two buses from my school to FTC with out walking or worrying about Broad and Vine, or the back up that leads there.
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Trainwizard
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I think the one good thing is that, since Washington Avenue is a very busy thoroughfare with a lot of stores and workplaces, a bus needs to run down the entire length of the street. Route 63 would just be a terrible ridership route, since it would be only a couple blocks away. The 64 took all the passenger ridership in the area, so there would be no need to add another bus route.
Edited by Trainwizard, Nov 21 2008, 10:05 PM.
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philabob1
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buswizard
Nov 21 2008, 10:04 PM
I think the one good thing is that, since Washington Avenue is a very busy thoroughfare with a lot of stores and workplaces, a bus needs to run down the entire length of the street. Route 63 would just be a terrible ridership route, since it would be only a couple blocks away. The 64 took all the passenger ridership in the area, so there would be no need to add another bus route.
The movement of 64 from Ellsworth/Federal to Washington Ave pretty much put an end to the need for 63. 64 serves ridership better on Washington although it is now a block away from its subway connection.
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philabob1
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philabob1
Nov 20 2008, 12:22 PM
If I am not mistaken, the 63 & 64 were combined once before either after both were dieselized in the 1955-1956 timeframe or sometime during the early years of SEPTA.

63 and 64 were combined in January 1962.
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Trainwizard
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philabob1
Nov 23 2008, 12:19 PM
63 and 64 were combined in January 1962.
wow that was quite some time ago
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Septa_kid
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philabob1
Nov 22 2008, 05:39 PM
buswizard
Nov 21 2008, 10:04 PM
I think the one good thing is that, since Washington Avenue is a very busy thoroughfare with a lot of stores and workplaces, a bus needs to run down the entire length of the street. Route 63 would just be a terrible ridership route, since it would be only a couple blocks away. The 64 took all the passenger ridership in the area, so there would be no need to add another bus route.
The movement of 64 from Ellsworth/Federal to Washington Ave pretty much put an end to the need for 63. 64 serves ridership better on Washington although it is now a block away from its subway connection.
Some of the NABI's still say that the 64 runs on Ellsworth and Fedral, and that the 63 is in service, Mainly the ones from southern excluding 5060, 5066, 5067, and 5069
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frankl3217
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joechopchop
Nov 13 2008, 07:58 PM
Callowhill did have lawnmowers for a period of time. Hence the reason for the sightings. For a short time, Southern had one for the portion of the C that served some apartments in South Philly (forgot the name).

the apartment complex was known as the gateway towers - 3600 sheaff lane.

out of the 8 years (1996 - 2005) i worked near delaware & washington ave, i've only seen neos, "bricks", "sharks" and "turtles" i never saw a "lawnmower" in the area.. and also saw AMG 815 on a tow truck once heading northbound on delaware ave
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SouthernSeptaRida215
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philabob1
Nov 16 2008, 12:10 PM
buswizard
Nov 14 2008, 01:42 PM
joechopchop
Nov 13 2008, 07:58 PM
Callowhill did have lawnmowers for a period of time. Hence the reason for the sightings. For a short time, Southern had one for the portion of the C that served some apartments in South Philly (forgot the name).
Why not keep them at Southern for Route 71
I don't recall the El D based at Southern. The Sheaff Lane branch of C was part of the main line - buses going there ran from 11th & Nedro. There were usually a half-dozen or so trips each peak period. The shuttles from Broad & Snyder ended when the subway was extended to Pattison in '73 - before then, shuttles ran to the Navy Yard and the Naval Hospital. I believe the Sheaff Lane trips were extensions of the Naval Hospital branch.

In my limited experience on 71, the peak-hour trips are quite crowded, so the El D's wouldn't adequately cover them. The middays are another story, but the schedule would be tough with any changeouts of equipment.
Topic Bump.... All I want to say here is that Southern does not house Eldorados because the 71 gets up to a standing load during peak hours in the Navy Yard soo Joechopchop your right and also Southern always runs one Flyer out there everyday where the drivers runs approximately 26 trips which adequately supports the 71. Also though Eldorado's can be used well for the 68 during the weekends when UPS is closed and also a couple during the week
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