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SEPTA capital Budget meeting; Projects on the way
Topic Started: Jan 13 2009, 11:42 AM (714 Views)
philabob1
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TransitChuckG
Jan 14 2009, 06:33 AM
Quote:
 
Light rail service on the 23 would be good but from what my mom tells me from riding it long ago, I don't know about it


Former trolley operators tell me the line was a disaster with trolleys. Of course, trolley advocates think it would be charming to have trolleys back on Germantown Ave.

Take your pick.

Chuck Greene
23's problems are many but, even as a bus line, it's too long and congested to be operated effectively and productively. SEPTA and the City built the Tioga/Rising Sun turnaround trackage and planned to restore tracks at the Butler substation several years ago to split 23 in half (the north segment ending at Rising Sun, the south at Butler) but this never came to be.

This could still be done by keeping the north piece as a trolley and permanently converting the south segment to bus. Germantown Ave is admittedly no picnic for trolley operations but at least the line would not suffer from added delays in South Phila and Center City. Much of the track on the northern piece is fairly new and in good shape as well.
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CACrafter88bk2504
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As for the 23, during the days of streetcar operation with PCCs(especially between 1976-1984), ANYTHING COULD & WOULD GO WRONG ON THIS LINE.

From cars having their motors & brakes going to unruly passengers to poor trackage to motorists & pedestrians & derailments, yes indeed, the 23 was quite an experience.

A. January 1977: An air car PCC(2625) broke down along the 23, southbound, in Germantown. It's follower pushed it. The tow bar came loose. 2625 coasted down Germantown Avenue(2625 & it's follower, the pusher, were empty). 2625 ran into 2736 on the 23(2736 had passengers on board), & both cars came off the tracks. Both cars were scrapped by 1979.

B. December 1977: all electric 2758 was taken out of service for brake failure on the 23 in Chestnut Hill. Along Germantown Avenue southbound @ Southampton Avenue, as the car was being pushed by it's follower(neither car with passengers), the streetcar rolled into a passenger automoblie unnanounced. No major damages, however, an old couple attempted to sue SEPTA for medical expences.

C. January 1980: air car 2639 derailed @ Broad & Erie.

D. Sunday March 19th, 1983, an operator came into the Bethlehem Pike Loop with more force than expected. The operator had all electric PCC 2100(overhauled in July 1980).The car derailed & ran into a building @ the loop. The operator was terminated for possible negligence. 2100 was scrapped in the fall of 1983.

Keep in mind, that along the outer & upper ends of the 23(further up in Germantown, further up in Mount Airy & all throughout Chestnut Hill) the line was cluttered with fall foilage during the fall months.

No sand in sandbox + slippery rails + wet leaves = accident waiting to happen.

From September 1976 up until the spring of 1984, anything showed up on the 23. Air cars, all electrics, KC Bicentennials, many of them in such decrepit condition to the point that when the streetcar showed up, people saw the cars & may have passed up the trip out of apathy towards the dismal service provided on the 23. By 1984, the gulf oil all electrics were relegated to the 23. The 6 & 56 got the GOH cars. The 53 got the GOH cars, after several vocalists residing on the north end of the line crowed about them getting the "junk cars."

You would be waiting for a car @ an intersection for up to as much as an hour.

You could never keep the 23 schedule as a streetcar operator. It was impossible.

And I miss it all.

Yet the streetcar advocates along the northern end of the 23 have no idea as to how to operate one, what takes place on one let alone maintain them & how many things can go wrong.

Let one of them hit their parked cars.

Let any of them get on the subway surface routes with the CBTC in place during evening rush hours.
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silverliner_2
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Cab signal supporter. Railroad engineer. Girl chaser. Transit fan. Totally unpredictable!
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Of course, if simple traffic regulations were enforced as strictly here as they are in Toronto, which has streetcars on many routes operating in identical situations to the 23, most issues would be nonexistent.

But this is Philadelphia.

Route 29 coming back as TT now has the issue of not only Pier 70, but the fact that provision for installation of the poles for the overhead wire was not made when the new townhomes were built in the former Tasker Homes area. I can imagine the squawking that may arise if/when they come through digging in the sidewalks to install poles and overhead. And by now, the overhead on most of the Route 29 and 79 is in need of replacement, as well as along the deadhead segments....
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