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Bus Question.....
Topic Started: Aug 4 2009, 05:03 PM (1,478 Views)
crazyfinger
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Does anyone remember a short lived fleet that ran both in the City Division and also the Red Arrow (Victory) division? I guess they were delivered in the late 70s.... They actually looked like a modern fishbowl "new look" bus. The were painted in then new res/white/blue livery, had padded blue vinyl seats, large picture windows.... I think they were made by Flexible... although I could be wrong about that. These were all off the street by the 90s.... replaced by the boxy Neoplans. Does anyone have pictures of these?
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TRANSIT_FREAK
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First, Welcome to the forums.

Are you talking about the beloved beattle bombers?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Thats one bus I love and miss.........

These are The RTS II made by GMC in 1980. 6v2ta? engine. I am not sure about the transmission though. Many other on the forum can answer that. These buses were delivered in 35ft and 40ft models. Transit interior seats resembled that of the transit AN440's.

EDiTED
Edited by TRANSIT_FREAK, Aug 4 2009, 05:17 PM.
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TRANSIT_FREAK
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There are more pictures in the Photo Gallery.
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crazyfinger
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Hi Transit Freak..... Thank you for the warm welcome. And yes, the picture you provided are what I was talking about. I was about 12 when these busses started running.... I thought they were so cool looking.... Why was their career so short lived at SEPTA? Were they unreliable or something?
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TRANSIT_FREAK
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Another member here can explain that. I was born when the last of them were in service and retiring.
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Van2006ko
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crazyfinger
Aug 4 2009, 05:49 PM
Hi Transit Freak..... Thank you for the warm welcome. And yes, the picture you provided are what I was talking about. I was about 12 when these busses started running.... I thought they were so cool looking.... Why was their career so short lived at SEPTA? Were they unreliable or something?
Welcome to the site!

The GMC II was delivered mid-year 1980. Many of these units were delivered to the West Philadelphia area of the system with slightly fewer units assigned to Allegheny (North Philadelphia), Frontier and Victory. The bus shown in the photo not a true representation of the most of the fleet, as it was 35 foot version and were assigned to Frontier. Some did made their way into the city, though.

Well the standard life cycle for a bus is 12 years. The very last GMC RTS was retired in 1997, so they were about 17-18 years old. This is well over the standard life cycle of a bus. Of course this is no comparison to the older GMC which lasted over 20-30 years. But SEPTA did get their money's worth out of them.

Over the years, these buses had a ton of overheating issues mainly throughout the 1980s. This forced SEPTA to relocate their A/C from the rear of the bus onto the top of the bus. not the mention the engine retrofit from a 6v71N to a 6v92TA. Nevertheless, the overheating issues still persist. These units were extremely unreliable with consistent break downs. In retrospect, their retirement really was more beneficial to the system.
Edited by Van2006ko, Aug 4 2009, 06:52 PM.
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Mark
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TRANSIT_FREAK
Aug 4 2009, 05:14 PM
First, Welcome to the forums.

Are you talking about the beloved beattle bombers?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Thats one bus I love and miss.........

These are The RTS II made by GMC in 1980. 6v2ta? engine. I am not sure about the transmission though. Many other on the forum can answer that. These buses were delivered in 35ft and 40ft models. Transit interior seats resembled that of the transit AN440's.

EDiTED
The bus pictured was an 1980 GMC RTS-II/03 model [the last of the "Slopebacks"...the next batch were the "Squaredback 04 series]. The particular bus pictured [4462] was a 35 footer originally assigned to Frontier. Then they moved to Victory, then spent their final days at Luzerne/Midvale.

The 35 footers [4458-4470] were originally assigned to Frontier. They had one-piece mylar signs. When these buses were sent to Victory, they got the two-piece signs the rest of the 40 foot fleet had.

The 40 foot buses were originally divided into 5 groups -

8000-8106 - Callowhill

8107-8116 - Germantown

8117-8204 - Allegheny

8205-8264 - Germantown

8265-8284 - Victory [Red Arrow] - These buses had a slightly different engine than the City buses and the Frontier buses.

Germantown's RTS buses were bumped out by the 8600 series Neoplans [8601-8665], and the buses were split this way:

8000-8160 - Callowhill

8161-8264 - Allegheny

8265-8284 - Victory.

In 1983, the HVAC systems on these buses were replaced with roof-mounted systems like the Neoplans [albeit in a smaller housing].

In 1987-89, ALL of the RTS's were repowered with 6V-92 engines, and the rear doors became operator controlled instead of passengers pushing a pole to open doors. Finally, the mylar curtains were replaced with flip-dot destination signs.

Sometime around 1985, a few RTS buses were transferred to Luzerne Depot. Luzerne then very quickly sent them back, however they got the 35 footers later for the 25, 35, 89 routes.

These buses were the king of West and North Philly streets until 1997 when the NABIs pushed them to the scrap heap.

They were never seen in Mt. Airy/W. Oak Lane areas after 1984 [but were seen in Germantown frequently on the E(65)] , and they were a very rare sight in the Northeast [seen only on Rising Sun Ave on the S [now 18] bus, again until 1984. Then they made regular late-night appearances on the MFSE Nite-Owls starting in 1991.


I hated the RTS's. Nobody larger than a small child could sit in the rear corner seats, and the AC's were chronically weak. Also the buses were slow as molasses.
Edited by Mark, Aug 4 2009, 07:31 PM.
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Tritransit Area
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Van2006ko
Aug 4 2009, 06:38 PM
crazyfinger
Aug 4 2009, 05:49 PM
Hi Transit Freak..... Thank you for the warm welcome. And yes, the picture you provided are what I was talking about. I was about 12 when these busses started running.... I thought they were so cool looking.... Why was their career so short lived at SEPTA? Were they unreliable or something?
Welcome to the site!

The GMC II was delivered mid-year 1980. Many of these units were delivered to the West Philadelphia area of the system with slightly fewer units assigned to Allegheny (North Philadelphia), Frontier and Victory. The bus shown in the photo not a true representation of the most of the fleet, as it was 35 foot version and were assigned to Frontier. Some did made their way into the city, though.

Well the standard life cycle for a bus is 12 years. The very last GMC RTS was retired in 1997, so they were about 17-18 years old. This is well over the standard life cycle of a bus. Of course this is no comparison to the older GMC which lasted over 20-30 years. But SEPTA did get their money's worth out of them.

Over the years, these buses had a ton of overheating issues mainly throughout the 1980s. This forced SEPTA to relocate their A/C from the rear of the bus onto the top of the bus. not the mention the engine retrofit from a 6v71N to a 6v92TA. Nevertheless, the overheating issues still persist. These units were extremely unreliable with consistent break downs. In retrospect, their retirement really was more beneficial to the system.
I think one thing to note, that may make their lifespan seam shorter than others, is that there really was only 1 order of RTSs. There weren't multiple orders like the Neoplans and New Flyers and New Looks, so it makes it seem like they had a shorter career in Philadelphia.

Oh, and welcome to PTV, crazyfinger! :)
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Route48Rider
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Mark
Aug 4 2009, 07:22 PM
They were never seen in Mt. Airy/W. Oak Lane areas after 1984 [but were seen in Germantown frequently on the E(65)]
Didn't a handful of the 40-foot RTS buses end up back at Luzerne in the mid-90s? I remember seeing and riding them (although rarely) on both the C and 18.
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MichaelBug
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Route48Rider
Aug 5 2009, 12:33 AM
Mark
Aug 4 2009, 07:22 PM
They were never seen in Mt. Airy/W. Oak Lane areas after 1984 [but were seen in Germantown frequently on the E(65)]
Didn't a handful of the 40-foot RTS buses end up back at Luzerne in the mid-90s? I remember seeing and riding them (although rarely) on both the C and 18.
I also remember several RTSes (both sizes) running at Luzerne. Somewhere in my picture collection I have a shot of one in service on the C. Not only that, I also have another picture of one of the 35 footers trying to cope with a crush rushhour load on the 33! I distinctly remember that the hapless "Beetle" had the somewhat unusual (& short-lived) destination sign of 33 VENANGO-23RD (in that order).
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