| We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| SEPTA history - from a personal perspective....; Growing up with Red Arrow, PTC, etc. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 2 2009, 08:21 AM (978 Views) | |
| bjbear71 | Dec 2 2009, 08:21 AM Post #1 |
|
Occasional Rider
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I wanted to post something from a personal perspective on this topic. I am very much pro-mass transit because I grew up in the Philadelphia suburbs without a car in the family until I began high school. We used the Red Arrow and PTC for everything; from visiting my grandparents who then lived in Logan to going downtown to the original department stores in center city (no malls then) for holiday shopping, etc. I have very fond memories of taking Red Arrow buses to both grade school and high school as well (the schools had some kind of special charters with them, if I recall correctly). My parents both used these lines every day to get to their jobs in downtown Philadelphia and I also remember my father talking about how he used the Broad Street Subway to get to his high school. After I graduated from high school and lived in Overbrook, the old PTC "E" bus went right past our duplex. So it's all pretty ingrained in me. And, for some reason, I specifically remember how friendly the Red Arrow drivers were when I rode that particular line. I am also pro-mass transit in a big way because I care about the environment and what we are doing to it. But I think my roots in this area and how we used the pre-SEPTA system when I was much younger made me the way I am today with regard to how I feel about it. I did have a car for approximately 20 years when I lived on the other side of the U.S., but kept it in the garage except for weekends to do my grocery shopping and other errands. I still took the bus (Pierce Transit in Washington State) to downtown Tacoma where my job was. When I moved back to the Philadelphia area in 2001, I was without a car (long story I won't go into here). I determined right there and then that I was going to live somewhere transit-accessible and use SEPTA 7 days a week, which is what I have done ever since. I have not owned a vehicle for almost nine years. I know that not everyone can do this, but I bet a LOT of people can and simply don't because they just won't give up or lessen their use of their cars. I find that I have incredible freedom in living this way - and I never felt that I had that kind of freedom when owning a car. There was always the worry of maintenance and roadside breakdowns (a big one for me), insurance costs, gasoline costs, wear and tear costs, etc. etc. Now, I can go literally anywhere I want in a huge five-county area on SEPTA, and if I have to travel outside that area, I can get to Amtrak or the Airport just as easily as well. Even my monthly transit pass is now paid for by my employer (a HUGE benefit I am very grateful for), but I was buying the passes myself even before this benefit began. I'd like to hear from others out there on this forum who grew up with the old system of Red Arrow and PTC and also how you use SEPTA now. |
![]() |
|
| Mark | Dec 2 2009, 04:46 PM Post #2 |
|
Advanced Transit Fan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
In my lifetime, I have NEVER owned, nor learned how to drive a car since I have great mass transit to get me wherever I need to go. I have lived in Philly, NYC, Alexandria, VA, and my current home in Collingswood, NJ, and all of these communities have excellent transit to fulfill all of my travel needs. Except for a brief period [1976-78 when I lived in Center City where I had no need of transit since I worked there too, my transport was my two feet.] all of my travel needs were met by PTC/SEPTA. No matter what neighborhood I lived in [N.Philly, W.Oak Lane, Mt. Airy] PTC/SEPTA took me where ever I need to go. In the mid 70's [High School years] it was the K charters to Cardinal Dougherty, trips downtown riding the 6 trolley and the Broad St Subway, in my very young years my mom and I used the 3, 48, 61 buses to do necessary errands and shopping [especially downtown at the Market St stores back in the day- Wanamakers, Lits, Gimbels, Strawbridge & Clothier, Woolworth's Grants, as well as seeing movies at the theaters along Chestnut St. In the late 60's, my family moved to NYC [St.Albans, Queens to be exact], and I got quite familiar with the NYCTA. The one bad[?] thing about my time up there was that the extremely rare trips to Manhattan that were taken back then [for me, a trip to downtown Jamaica was like a trip to Center City]. I rarely visited other boros except for field trips either for school or summer camps, so I never experienced the massiveness of the NYC transit system. When I turned 18 and was able to take trips to NYC by myself, I managed to make it a point to explore all aspects of the NYCTA and other systems in the area. I had limited exposure to PS/TNJ/NJT until the '76-78 period when I lived in Center City, I used to take an occasional excursion to Camden and the suburban areas, and I can tell you, NJT today is a shell of what was operating back then. In 1979 I got a job in DC, and moved to Alexandria, Va. I got a taste of riding and using WMATA, and the Metro when it was a much smaller system than it is now. I also managed to explore virtually all of the DC area using WMATA and Ride-ON [DASH in Alexandria, and Faifax Connector did not exist in 1979-83. WMATA ran all of the bus routes in VA. In Maryland, WMATA ran most of the Md. routes except for the 2 dozen or so routes that Ride-On operated and they ran all of the routes in PG county, quite poorly IMHO]. Back to Philly in '84 and I used SEPTA for all of my travels everywhere. The opening of the Commuter tunnel mad my NYC trips easier since I lived along the R7 line [Stenton Station] and NYC was a two-train trip [R7 and NJT]. In 1990, I moved to Collingswood and began using NJT and PATCO. Everyday I use NJT, I get jealous of using SEPTA since SEPTA runs so much better than the NJT system especially in the frequency and convenience of service. In NJ, you have to go to Camden to make transfers and trips to malls can be quite the expedition. Also I made sure that everything is either within walking distance [thanks to life in these older towns like Collingswood and Oaklyn. I would be screwed if I lived in Cherry Hill, or Voorhees, or Marlton], or it is along the bus line [like my supermarket in Lawnside on the 403]. My current commuting pattern is now quite brutal thanks to Lincoln's ill-advised move to Radnor. I use NJT and PATCO to Center City then the R5 to Radnor. Although I wasn't too badly affected by the recent strike, it is an expensive and long commute, but it still beats the white-knuckle driving some of my co-workers fron NJ endure on our wonderful Interstates [I-76, 476]. Edited by Mark, Dec 2 2009, 07:26 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| bjbear71 | Dec 3 2009, 07:25 AM Post #3 |
|
Occasional Rider
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Mark, Thanks SO much for relaying your story. My hat is totally off to you for living your life totally without a car at any point in time, a statement I unfortunately cannot make (though I am endeavoring to make up for that now...!). From what you wrote, you are just a couple years younger than myself (I graduated high school in '71). I like hearing stories like yours because I am surrounded by a lot of people daily at work who think I am crazy to be as dependent on transit as I am. I like knowing I am not alone in my commitment to live carless. Yes, the department stores in center city Phila. and getting to them on the EL! It always impressed me that Wanamaker's (my favorite) had its own subway stop that led right into its bargain basement with its soft serve ice cream counter (maybe some of the other department stores had their own EL stop(s) too, but I did not frequent them nearly as much, if at all once I traveled transit by myself during high school years). One thing I will say is that I refuse under any circumstances to again live in a city/area that does not have mass transit. I went through that once while briefly in central Florida, and I never will again. It should be a crime to make people car dependent - especially when you are barely making enough money to support a car, let alone worry about breakdowns and repairs... The system in Tacoma, Washington, where I spent 17 and a half years, was very good. Not nearly as extensive as SEPTA, of course, but Pierce Transit served me very well when I worked in downtown Tacoma and even going to the local mall. At the time I used it, they had a monthly pass system similar to SEPTA's, but there was no magnetic stripe on the card. You just carried the card and showed it to the driver when you got on or off the bus. |
![]() |
|
| Tritransit Area | Dec 3 2009, 10:48 AM Post #4 |
![]()
Transit Enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I admire both of you for living car-free. I'm way to young to go back to PTC and Red Arrow days, but as a new car owner, I find myself wishing that I didn't have to rely on it as much as I do. It's great to have it as a back-up for when transit doesn't work for me for whatever reason, but not as the primary commuting source. Unfortunately, the alternative is pretty unreasonable. I either travel 2.5 hrs each way or walk almost 2 miles to the bus stop to get to work 1.5 hours early... The car, while I enjoy it quite a bit, is quite a cost prohibitive item to own, especially with a 44 mile round trip commute....on the PA Turnpike. Whenever I can find a place, I hope to live near convenient transit so I can leave the car behind more often. |
![]() |
|
| philabob1 | Dec 3 2009, 10:35 PM Post #5 |
|
Foamer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Enjoy reading these insights. My parents never drove, and where I grew up (South Phila in the 50's-70's) this was not unusual. Until I was old enough to borrow a friend's car or buy my own (not until I was out of college) it was PTC and SEPTA to wherever, at all times of the day and any day of the week. Going 'uptown' as we called it involved the 5 bus to Market St and then the 17 or 33 out to wherever we were headed. An alternate was the 50 trolley a little longer walk from home and a lot less dependable, but sometimes coming home from uptown we'd grab it on 4th St. The 29 trackless was right around the corner and the 79 was a short walk away so any crosstown trips were on an old tank of a Brill, and these were indeed tanks - they made the trips in any weather, even when everything else got delayed. They were toasty in the winter and ovens in the summer but they did their jobs. I took the 29 to high school every day and managed to like them very much, so I was sorry to see the Brills get retired by the AMG's. Some trips to town, particularly with my dad (who was a railfan), took us on the 29 to either 11th St for a slow ride on the 23 or to Broad St and the subway. I was fascinated with the old cars on the subway with their loud motors and bare light bulbs, and all that hissing of air brakes, air doors, etc. Every so often we'd venture to a Phils game and get to ride the subway past City Hall, which was usually as far north as we would go, up onto the exotic four-track tunnel and often onto the express track screaming by lesser stations like Fairmount and Columbia. Another frequent visit for us was the old Aquarama and that involved the C bus. We'd have to pay the 2 cents additional for transferring over the subway (and I remember the coin changers that the C drivers had with the long barrel for pennies - on the other routes the drivers had the 3-barrel changers and no pennies). Even after I bought the car, I continued to use transit to get from home to the job in town, later moving to Eastwick for a short while and using the 36, then back to South Phila and the old familiar routes, and for coming up on 24 years to Roxborough and the culture shock of the 27. After a couple of years with an assigned vehicle and not using transit, a job change put me back on the system, but turned me into a train rider as the R6, despite its many shortcomings, is much more dependable and much less time consuming than the 27. But I'm still using transit - the car gets me to and from the station, but the train is my 'ride' to and from town. It seems as though the popularity of the train is growing all the time. The only downside is that SEPTA can't easily keep up the supply of seats, so let's hope those Silverliner V's start showing up soon. It's nice to see transit is catching on again. |
![]() |
|
| CACrafter88bk2504 | Dec 4 2009, 03:31 PM Post #6 |
|
Transit Historian
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The 9 and 27 are indeed a different sort of animal. South Philadelphia is so congested and SEPTA runs all over the place down there. Roxborough is so spread out and THE ONLY way into town is I 76, whether by car or bus, unless one wants to venture thtough North Philadelphia. I really like Roxborough a lot, especially along the communites running between Leverington and Port Royal, especially Paoli Avenue. If I lived in Roxborough, I'd probably drive into town. Either way, you're screwed. No lunch money for me if that were the case, for it all would go to parking in the lots down there. |
![]() |
|
| bjbear71 | Dec 4 2009, 07:23 PM Post #7 |
|
Occasional Rider
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Not sure why you are saying that the ONLY way into town is I-76. SEPTA runs a bus (#32) from Roxborough to Center City. Yes, it looks like a long ride, but for me it would still beat driving a car into town and paying who-knows-how-much for parking on a daily basis! I remember what it cost to do that years ago, it must indeed be a fortune now...I also know people who live in Manayunk who manage to get the R6 train into center city as well, so there's another option. I-76 is a mess, whether you drive or use SEPTA. I know, my bus uses it every day I go to work in King of Prussia, and you never know what you are going to find on it. It could be smooth sailing OR a bad car wreck that could tie traffic up for hours. Another reason for me to like SEPTA is that frequently, the drivers are radioed when there is trouble ahead (sometimes long before we arrive at that point) and then the driver can plan to get off an exit or two to bypass lots of the tie up. On the way home from work, sometimes we have taken entire detours to avoid both I-76 AND 476. He takes 202 from King of Prussia then comes out on West Chester Pike at Newtown Square and resumes the trip from just below where the Blue Route would have put us on Route 3. |
![]() |
|
| Neoei3318 | Dec 8 2009, 05:07 PM Post #8 |
|
Transit Historian
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The 32 aint too bad. I would ride it downtown from 29/Allegheny to 21st/Parkway over this past Summer. Most riders would default to the 48, leaving the small few left onboard with a quiet ride down 33rd St. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · General History · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




8:01 PM Jul 10