| We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| History of the 4 and 16 Route Numbers; All of the former lines that were the 4 and 16 | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2012, 10:24 PM (1,497 Views) | |
| Mark | Feb 16 2012, 10:24 PM Post #1 |
|
Advanced Transit Fan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Now that SEPTA is assigning 4 and 16 to the former C bus branches, lets take a look back at the now-dead routes that used to bear these numbers: Route 4: This route began as a trolley route that ran from Center City to Frankford via 6th and 7th Streets. The route was abandoned in 1922 when the Frankford El opened. There were two other incarnations of the 4 Trolley, from Lehigh Ave to Center City [1922-1923], and from somewhere in Tioga to Center City [1923-30]. By 1930 this route was victim to the Depression and finally abandoned in 1930. Bus Route 4 was started around 1955 and started from Broad and Snyder and ran to either or both the Navy Yard [replacing the original 79 trolley], and the Food Distribution Center. Where this route ended up depended on the time of day. [Maybe Transit Chuck could fill in more info about this route]. The 4 bus was abandoned in 1973 when the BSS extension was opened to Pattison Ave and the 7 and G were extended on Oregon Ave. A second version of the 4 appeared in 1983 as SEPTA numbered the two Named routes running out of Broad and Olney. The FOX [Frankford-Olney Express] became the 8, while the Fort Washington Express became the 4. This route ran one [or two] outbound trip(s) in the morning, and one [or two] inbound trip(s) in the afternoon. This reverse-commute route was abandoned in 1991 or '92 when the Fern Rock Transportation Center station opened and passengers can connect to the R5 train to Ft. Washington and ride the 201 bus to the industrial park served by the 4. Edited - The 4 actually ran until September of 1996. It was a victim of the 1996 cuts. Route 16: Route 16 started as a trolley route running on North 19th and 20th Sts to Center City. The Center City terminal was Front and Market, but it's northern Terminal is lost to history. Anyway the trolley was abandoned in 1929. Bus route 16 was started around 1974 as a cross-county bus route on Street Rd. It ran from Cornwells Heights to Warrington. Ridership was light, and the route was abandoned in 1980 during the big reorganization of bus routes in the Northeast. Another version of the 16 was a product of another bus change [around 1987-88] in the Northeast. This 16 was a renamed W-Y combo route running from Bustleton to Fern Rock. It had two or three trips in each direction during rush hours, but the reverse trips were heavily used by school students. SEPTA actually planned to consider expanding this route to be an all-day operation to divert some Far NE riders to the BSS during EL reconstruction, but this route succumbed to one of the many financial crises SEPTA had in the early 90's. Edited - The 16 was also a victim of the 1996 cuts. The school trips became a 400 series route. Now that the 4 and 16 will be permanently assigned to the C branches, we'll se what other number that had a history will be given to the remaining lettered routes or newly created routes Edited by Mark, Feb 18 2012, 08:32 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Tritransit Area | Feb 17 2012, 10:41 AM Post #2 |
![]()
Transit Enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The Street Road version of the 16 would be well utilized if it existed today. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Feb 17 2012, 05:14 PM Post #3 |
|
Deleted User
|
route 4 3800-3849 midvale route 16 3850-3899 midvale route 4 7550-7569 southern route 16 7570-7599 southern |
|
|
| TransitChuckG | Feb 17 2012, 08:01 PM Post #4 |
|
Foamer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Sorry guys, back then I wasn't too much into transit. Chuck |
![]() |
|
| Septa_kid | Feb 18 2012, 04:21 AM Post #5 |
|
What if...
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm gonna slap myself in the arm for this but.... What does this have to do with the subject at hand? |
![]() |
|
| philabob1 | Feb 18 2012, 12:34 PM Post #6 |
|
Foamer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
According to info I have, the 4 began operation on 6/29/59. The base route was Broad & Snyder to the Food Center, making the loop around the Food Center (7th, Packer, Front, Pattison, 7th) and laying over at Galloway & Pattison. There were branches that went to the Navy Yard and the large Food Fair warehouse on 10th & Pattison (where the Linc is today). (I recall 'Food Fair' being a destination sign, which always made me chuckle since there were Food Fair stores everywhere and you might wonder which one the bus was going to...) The 4 had an oddball schedule which reflected the activity at the Food Center - it ran early in the AM and late at night with a very skeleton base service (usually one bus) on weekday midday and Saturday, and more service on Sunday to respond to the hours at the Center. I recall the usual equipment was Southern's 700-series 5106's. Don't recall it but the 79 provided owl service starting later in '59 - don't know the routing - and this ended when 79 went trackless in June '61. Both 4 and 19, the east-side Oregon Ave service that went to Broad & Snyder (and apparently the routes were interlined), had stands at the southeast corner of that intersection. Both routes went bye-bye when the subway was extended to Pattison in April '73. Edited by philabob1, Feb 18 2012, 12:35 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| maddoxdy | Feb 18 2012, 07:51 PM Post #7 |
|
Transit Fan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I used to drive a BCT bus up and down Street Rd one summer 8 years ago. Street Rd Rush. From Warrington to ??? (Past Phila Park). Doug M |
![]() |
|
| Mark | Feb 18 2012, 08:28 PM Post #8 |
|
Advanced Transit Fan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Thanks for the information on the 4 bus. I knew it had a funky route and schedule and that the bus was done in by the BSS and the G bus extension. |
![]() |
|
| philabob1 | Feb 19 2012, 01:27 PM Post #9 |
|
Foamer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
From what I've been told, the 79 served the 4 on some late-night and owl runs much as it once served the Navy Yard part-time - the east end (below 12th) went to the Food Center instead of Delaware Ave. Since the 4 used 12th eastbound and Broad westbound I wonder if 79 came up 11th instead of Broad to hit its usual stop on Broad/Snyder westbound. Someone also told me the 4 used Davy Crocketts early on but I don't think that was true as I don't recall any Crocketts were ever based at Southern. After the subway extension a strange branch of 17 served the Food Center as an additional service during owl periods (in addition to the normal G service), coming east from Broad & Pattison via Pattison and then the usual Food Center loop starting at 7th St. The first version of this went to the Navy Yard on the return trip (via 11th, Terminal and Broad) before going back to the subway at Pattison. Not sure how long that lasted. When G was extended about 2/3 of the service went to Delaware/Oregon and 1/3 to the Food Center. |
![]() |
|
| thelemaque87 | Feb 19 2012, 05:49 PM Post #10 |
|
Transit Fan
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I believe route R should be route 85. Route K should be route 82. Route L should be route 81 going to Plymouth Meeting Mall and route 69 should commence as a new bus route for SEPTA beginning at Broad and Olney to Erdenheim which will probably have low ridership and be a good candidate for one of the future 30 foot buses SEPTA will receive later. This new bus route will take a little pressure off of OTC's high traffic of pedestrians during after school and rush hour periods. Route 41 should be the H and route 45 should be the XH. (I think one of these should terminate at 33rd and Venango or that new food shopping center thats been talked about). Route G should be route 51. Route J should be route 74. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Bus and Trackless Trolley · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2




![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




7:13 PM Jul 10