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take a look at this
Topic Started: Sep 11 2013, 12:06 AM (2,815 Views)
raa
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take a look at the buses destination sign,..... ex septa bus?
Posted Image

http://www.bargainbusnews.com/Buses/4220-1973GMTDH4523A/
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Septa3371CSX1
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That does look like a Red Arrow destination sign but I don't believe this is a SEPTA bus. SEPTA didn't have any 1973 GM's (this was when the big Flxible order was rolling in) and the milage on this bus (60,000) is way too low in my opinion for it to have operated on SEPTA.
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frankl3217
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in addition to that, septa's ctd fishbowls (as well as the flxibles) had a 2 piece destination roll sign, 1 scroll for the route # and another for the destination.

if i recall correctly, septa's fishbowls were manufactured and delivered between 1963 and 1970.

question: did any septa route have this exact destination (67th and elmwood ave)? it is a fairly common street name
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Mark
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frankl3217
Sep 14 2013, 10:18 AM
in addition to that, septa's ctd fishbowls (as well as the flxibles) had a 2 piece destination roll sign, 1 scroll for the route # and another for the destination.

if i recall correctly, septa's fishbowls were manufactured and delivered between 1963 and 1970.

question: did any septa route have this exact destination (67th and elmwood ave)? it is a fairly common street name
The two-piece destination roll signs didn't show up at Red Arrow until the SEPTA takeover in 1970, all equipment on Red Arrow bought prior to '70 had the one-piece sign. The two-piece sign was standard on all equipment purchases up to the RTSs. The Neoplans had the dot-matrix signs, and the RTS lost the roll signs [converted to dot-matrix] in 1988.

To answer the question, the 67th and Elmwood destination was the old Red Arrow "J" route terminal, which became the present-day 108. The 67th and Elmwood destination is still used today to turn back rush-hour trippers on the route.

The Red Arrow 108 was combined with the CTD "U" bus in 1993 to form the present route running from the 69th St Terminal to the Airport with subsequent extensions to the UPS Air Hub and the Airport Business Center. It is the only route jointly operated between the two divisions [CTD & STD].
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frankl3217
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accurate and very detailed reply mark. thanks!

i guess its possible that the fishbowl pictured above was once belonged to septa, or at least its roll sign came from a septa vehicle.

i did some browsing before through the photo gallery and took notice before of red arrow's fishbowls having the 1 piece signs. i also remember seeing the ctd fishbowls (as i used to ride them on the 47 and several other routes) having the the 2 piece signs.

the only other septa vehicles i recall seeing (and riding) with the one piece signs were the amg trackless trolleys

also in the photo gallery, i came across a few pics from michael b and doug diehl of rts 8277 (refitted wit the dox matrix sign) on the 108 destined for 67th and elmwood at 69th st. great catch guys!

i been riding septa ctd vehicles since 1982 and didnt venture out in red arrow land until the early 1990's

the question remains if this bus (or its roll sign) once belonged to septa
Edited by frankl3217, Sep 14 2013, 10:23 PM.
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raa
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thanks for the feedback guys, i wish i was born when these buses were around. i was born in 1993 lol :-/
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MichaelBug
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Thanks for the compliment on my RTS 8277 photo, frankl3217!

At that time (early 90's) I was a,daily commuter on the 93 from Collegeville to Norristown, then the P&W from there to 69th St. I often carried my Canon Sure Shot Owl Date 35mm camera with me then.

SEPTA never owned a 35 foot GM TDH-4523A. All of the 35 foot fishbowls used by Red Arrow, PTC, & SEPTA were earlier models. I checked the GM production lists maintained by the Ohio Museum of Transportation at omot.org to confirm that. Interestingly, they do show one TDH-4523A as being ordered by the Philadelphia Police Department in 1976-wonder what ever happened to that bus?

The TDH-4523A was the last 35 foot version of the GM fishbowl made in the U.S. Both LANTA's (in 1973) .& CATA's (in 1976) first new bus orders were for 4523A's. Indeed, several of the LANTA buses from their order later also saw service with CATA as well!
Edited by MichaelBug, Sep 16 2013, 07:51 AM.
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frankl3217
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thanks for your input michael! now we know for certain this bus never belonged to septa
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Mark
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frankl3217
Sep 14 2013, 10:21 PM
accurate and very detailed reply mark. thanks!

i guess its possible that the fishbowl pictured above was once belonged to septa, or at least its roll sign came from a septa vehicle.

i did some browsing before through the photo gallery and took notice before of red arrow's fishbowls having the 1 piece signs. i also remember seeing the ctd fishbowls (as i used to ride them on the 47 and several other routes) having the the 2 piece signs.

the only other septa vehicles i recall seeing (and riding) with the one piece signs were the amg trackless trolleys

also in the photo gallery, i came across a few pics from michael b and doug diehl of rts 8277 (refitted wit the dox matrix sign) on the 108 destined for 67th and elmwood at 69th st. great catch guys!

i been riding septa ctd vehicles since 1982 and didnt venture out in red arrow land until the early 1990's

the question remains if this bus (or its roll sign) once belonged to septa
SEPTA/PTC CTD vehicles with one-piece destination signs:

1]The ex-St. Louis PCCs [ 2201-2250-scrapped 1960]

2]The ex-Kansas City PCC's [both the ones purchased by PTC (2251-90) and the 11 cars purchased from Toronto (2240-2250)]

3]The SDH5304 GM Fishbowls [3901-3916]

4]Originally at Frontier Division, the 35 ft. RTS [4458-4470] had one-piece signs. When they were transferred to Victory in 1985, they had the two-piece signs put in, that lasted 3 years until all of the RTS s had the flip-dot signs put in 1988-89.

5]The AM General Trackless trolley fleet

6]The K-car trolley fleet until 2010.
Edited by Mark, Sep 20 2013, 07:24 PM.
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philabob1
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Everything from Red Arrow had single-piece signs so the sign could've come from one of its fishbowls. As I recall it ordered its last ones in the 1966-67 time frame. Red Arrow was a bit unusual in that route numbers/letters (most were letters but there were a handful of numbers) did not appear on the front signs and only on the side signs (and, oddly, after the destination, so for this one it would show as '67th & Elmwood J'). For the 'Folsom' lines, I don't recall numbers indicated anywhere on destination curtains until the arrival of SEPTA (and, as I recall, they may not have had numbers at all, much like the Media, Sharon Hill and Norristown rail lines which were all known as just those).
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