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Question on PCC - II rebuilds
Topic Started: Aug 24 2014, 06:20 PM (1,217 Views)
t6a5
New Rider
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Hi there,

I am new to this forum but I am a long time tram enthusiast. I have a rather technical question pertaining to the Brookville PCC rebuilds and the installation of their wheelchair lift. However, I feel that I should provide the background behind this question, so bear with me please... lol

I am a fan of the Tatra T3, a vehicle based off of the PCC design that operates in the former Eastern Bloc. Unfortunately these vehicles were designed long before accessiblity concerns came to light, but after seeing vehicles like GM Fishbowls and PCCs, I wanted to find out how feasible this was to do on T3 cars (I couldn't apply it in real life, but it's nice to have that knowledge just because.)

For a while I thought I had something good, but then I found out that wheelchair lifts have all this ancillary stuff, a huge operational gear and operating equipment which wouldn't be able to fit under the cars due to the fact that most electrical equipment is located under there. In the attached photo, you can see it in between the trucks - large and bulky (this relates to Philly PCCs, I promise!)

Posted Image
DPB 7755 - 01 by t6a5iii, on Flickr

However, I then remembered the regular PCC, which, as can be seen in this photo, also has stuff under the floor.

Posted Image
TTC 4431 on 7-7-80 by transit103, on Flickr

And yet it was possible to fit the Philly cars with lifts. My question is, how was this done? Even some modern streetcars have bulky electrical equipment - in this photo that I've attached, the equipment is located on the roof and continues from the roof up until the top of the passenger window line. The only thing located under the floor is a static converter.

Posted Image
DPHMP 8271 - 01 by t6a5iii, on Flickr

Obviously low ceilings are no concern on these on account of the low floors on these cars, but the PCCs, obviously, have no such floor. So what was done? I know that these cars are not exactly star performers but electronics are electronics.

Thanks for any information that you guys can provide!
-T6A5
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frankl3217
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welcome to the PTV forum :)

great pics and interesting questions you have. the wheel chair lift doesn't take up much additional space as it is integrated as rear exit steps. from what i have read about the PCC 2's specs, brookeville did compact some of the electronics. the hvac system is placed in front of the collector components on the roof top. i'm sure another member or 2 here can go in to further detail than i can about its operation.

everything regarding philly's trolleys, including specs and history can be found here: http://www.phillytrolley.org/ and specs for the PCC2 cars here: http://www.phillytrolley.org/GirardAve_PCC_specs.htm

hope this helps :)
Edited by frankl3217, Aug 24 2014, 09:10 PM.
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t6a5
New Rider
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Hi there!

Thanks for your replies.

Would I be correct in assuming that the PCCs use a Lift-U lift? I know other manufacturers make them as well, among them being Ricon, but those are set up differently than Lift-Us (and are usually used on coach buses.)

According to Lift-U's literature, their LU10 model has this long platform that goes under the vehicle, and finding a location for that would be a challenge even without the associated equipment.

http://files.hoganmfg.com/Transit/LU10/199-0061.pdf

As for what manner of associated equipment this is, I know a mechanic who works at a garage in Toronto which had a large fleet of Orion Vs with lifts before they began to be retired, and his exact quote is this, in response to me asking how big the operational gear was: "And the dimensions are roughly 17"w, 12"h, 15"deep, not including water plumbing. Outlet has a collector plate that runs it into a 2.5" flexible hose. Outlet is on the forward side of the ramp (lift)
The actual motor, pump and valving are located in a compartment on the curb side, immediately behind the fuel tank. "

I presume that, unless they used a different type of wheelchair lift, all this would have to be accounted for.

On this note, are there any videos around showing a PCC lift deploying? I haven't been able to find anything.

Thanks!
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NeoplanDudeJosMuller
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I Found Something, Its A Picture, Not Sure If It Helps But, Its All I Saw.

Septa PCC Wheelchair Lift you can also click on the website if its of any use.
Edited by NeoplanDudeJosMuller, Aug 27 2014, 01:13 AM.
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