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How would you rate “Lucifer Rising?”
Awesome! 4 (50%)
Pretty good. 2 (25%)
It was okay. 0 (0%)
Meh. 0 (0%)
Parts were okay, but it could have been better. 2 (25%)
Didn't like it. 0 (0%)
Hated it! 0 (0%)
Total Votes: 8
Episode 4.22 “Lucifer Rising”; Episode discussion and rating poll
Topic Started: May 14 2009, 03:28 PM (859 Views)
Scifidiva
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
:innocent ... :fire ... :angel: ”It’s the End of the World as We Know it” (Part 1):angel:... :fire... :innocent

“… And I don’t feel fine” (apologies to REM) :lesigh:

EWW :(

I’m going into this episode unspoiled except for what I described in the “Soon Promo”. No matter what happens I’ll be repeating Sam’s mantra from S&V with a gender twist “Focus on the hot guys” :wubble because they're both :angel:'s.

Enjoy the final new episode of S4, cast your vote and discuss.


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tammitam
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I'm scared!
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tammitam
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
More later, as I have to think ... but save for a few slow moments, this was awesome!

I'm so glad Ruby died, the bitch!

Zacariah should be next, the bastard!
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Irishgirl
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
[ *  * ]
I'm so glad that Ruby's dead. Starting singing "Ding dong, the witch is dead'

Poor, that evil bitch duped him. He's gonna be so emotionally wrought. Especially after he killed that nurse. He didn't want to do it, but Ruby goaded him into it. I'm so happy she's dead.

Yay for Castiel. Finally an angel with some balls.

Was Chuck the prophet really ordering up twenty prostitutes? That was kinda gross.

By the way, did I mention that how happy I am that Ruby's dead? :rah :rah :rah
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Scifidiva
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yeah, Irishgirl, I agree. Except for a few slow parts it was great. One tiny, tiny quibble. I loved the Dean (and Sam) came to their respective senses, but I wish that Sam had gotten a win except for holding Ruby as Dean ganked her. Poor guy should feel as if the earth should swallow him up now, because he was totally played by Ruby and Dean was right - again- not to trust her. Sam's life has been one long string of failures and now even while he was some taking control of his life he failed the biggest challenge of all - instead of stopping the apocalypse, he freed Lucifer.

It still does not make sense to me if Lilith knew she was the last seal why she kept breaking seals unless she knew she was to the "final sacrifice" so her Master could rise and got "cold feet", so she tried to make a deal with Sam for his and Dean's deaths in exchange to stop breaking seals. But at least both boys realize they've be played.

While the demon blood addiction was logical I slightly expected it was more of a psychological addiction, and that it was "all him" anyway. Which could mean that his powers may not be all gone, though many fans would prefer that they are totally gone.

Unless he blew out his all his demon blood killing Lilith, he still has his "powers" but he may have to practice, practice, practice to access them without his "demon blood crutch. He may still have some potential to exorcise demons with his mind and maybe even send angels into the cornfield. He can still be useful to protect Castiel and Dean.

Alternatively, EK might decide he's done enough with Sam's abilities for the rest of series.

I don't think that Lucifer, the demons and even the "bad apple angels" are done with Sam and Dean and I have a sneaking suspicion that Ruby and Zach were on "speaking terms" because they both said the same thing, separately, to Sam and Dean - that Lilith had to break the first seal. But Cas knew Lilith was the last seal and that's probably what he was going to tell Dean (and Sam). I think Zach was the one who "altered" the message from Dean that Sam heard.

Dean, Sam and Cas are all going to be hunted in S5 by angels and demons. I'm glad that Cas finally stood up for what he believed in and helped Dean get to Chuck. (A weird use of Chuck, btw, but at least he lived to return. Maybe that was his version of "smoke 'em if you got 'em" because he knew Lucifer was going to be released.)

Bobby lived and he was awesome. He put his foot down and gave Dean a variation of his "family don't end with blood, even if someone in your family has a problem with too much demon blood consumption."

I'm so very glad Dean get did not angel powers because his strength has always been in his humanity.

I'm so very glad Sam was having second thoughts through the whole episode and heard Dean through the wall but probably thought he was hearing things because of the "message" that Dean left. I like Ruby finally showing her true colors and using "mojo" to shut Dean out. I love that Dean never stopped trying to get to Sam.

And most of all I'm very HAPPY that Sam didn't go dark side and wasn't vessalized by Lucifer. And the Winchesters were together at the end - I didn't expect that. But if Sam was "vessalized" immediately or took the "First's place" immediately wouldn't have much hope in the boys getting together until many episodes into S5. But now they start S5 together, though both (not so) heavenly and demonic forces will try to separate them again.

There's still a possibility that Sam will become the "Antichrist" figure because Lucifer might want a "Leader", too, and Dean may still be asked to kill Sam so he can save him, but for now I can watch the S5 premiere with less anxiety.

That's a really quick run down until I "rewatch". FWIW, I don't really think God has left the building, He's just observing. I think He wants the Winchesters to lock Lucifer back into his cage together. The "Gospel" that Chuck is writing is called the Winchester Gospel, not the Gospel of Dean or The Gospel of Sam.

I think we'll see evidence of angels that are still loyal to the "Sn God" in S5 because Zach and Uriel couldn't have converted them all; Cas can't be the only "loyal" angel left in Heaven or on Earth.
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Irishgirl
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
[ *  * ]
Wonderful post Scifidiva. Interesting theory about Ruby and Zachariah working together. I wouldn't put it past them. Since we first met Zachariah, I haven't liked him. It seemed like he viewed the way Uriel did as beneath him. I think he wanted the apocalypse to happen to wipe the earth clean of humans.

Is it September yet? I have a feeling it's going to be a long summer.
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BlueEyedDemonLiz
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Sweet Lord... of the Rings!
[ *  * ]
My initial reaction is disappointment because the episode didn't really deliver anything in the way of surprises. Killing Lillith was the final seal...uhm, I think most of us had guessed that already. I would at least have liked the episode to end on something more interesting, like Lucifer rising and using Sam as a vessel. Oh and Ruby wasn't a good little demon after all...hold on while I take a moment to get over that shocker...(sorry, I'll stop now - sarcasm isn't pretty).

I found the whole Dean in the green room thing boring and would have much rather seen Dean in action than procrastinating with a bunch of angels. He was in there for almost the entire episode.

I really didn't like that Sam was so easily goaded into killing Lillith when he was clearly having second thoughts...for someone who is meant to be smart and is smart, he was played like a fiddle.

The ending was hopeful with regards to the brothers' relationship, clinging on to each-other as they always do and that was a painfully sweet scene but yeah, Season 5 for Sam doesn't look awesome. He's fulfiled his role apparently and now it's Dean's job to kill Lucifer...I can see Sam spending most of Season 5 wandering around behind Dean, lugging his hugeeee guilt baggage along with him. Also, seeing as he's 'shot his load' I have a nasty suspicion, his powers are gone so the whole demon-blood addiction will be overlooked.

I wanted some shocks and surprises...I'd have been gutted if they'd have killed someone like Bobby off but at least it would have been something to flail over...we've had a big season finale and the writers didn't even have the guts to do something dramatic - beyond what we all were kind of expecting anyway.

Ho hum...I think it's 4 or 5 months to Season 5. I'll most defininately be watching but I'm not excited. Supernatural is my only show and I'm addicted to Jared so I can't not watch but I'm not hopeful for Sam anymore...or that anything in the show will go the way I want it to.
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fandrea
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You're Like a Walking Encyclopedia of Weirdness
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Jut leaving my thoughts here too. lol

First, Bobby is made of AWESOME. And I loved big brother Dean back. His message to Sam was heartbreaking. Shame Ruby (or bad angel Zack) altered it. Sam was so sad throughout the episode and JP did an awesome job showing his inner struggle. Poor Sam, thinking there is no going back for him. *hugs him* And did he really burn his powers out? I hope not. I would like to see them. This can't just disappear magically. Black eyes and all that. I liked the symmetry (Dean breaking the first and Sam the last seal) between the brothers. And them clinging to each other at the end. I loved it. And I also liked that Dean and Sam killed Ruby together. As far as redmption goes, I think Sam needs it mostly for himself. He is carrying a mountin pile of guilt right about now. But he was played. Big time by Ruby. I always had a suspect that she is working for Lilith (think I said it too). Actually both brothers were played until the very end by both sides. Btw Castiel has some explainig to do. I liked that he helped though. But bottom line, THE WINCHESTER TEAM IS BACK!!! And I couldn't ask anything better. So YAY, for that. :rah

PS. Anyone caught the HOTH setting in the church in the past? I did.
And forgive any typos. lol

fandrea
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tammitam
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I liked that Dean broke the first seal, Sam the last ... it was ironic.

As far as Sam being stupid ... it wasn't his intelligence that was played, it was his emotions. Sam, while being VERY smart, is also very emotionally distraught, and I think this happened LONG before Jess. Remember what wee Sam said to Sam in the room. "I thought we were gonna be normal." I think Sam felt, no matter what was told to him, that he was always the cause of his mother's death. I mean, even John never denied it.

What episode was in in S1 ... Salvation? Sam said something like it was all his fault. John sat there, said nothing.

What I want to know is ... why did YED go after kids in a later generation? He already had his choices, so why hit another generation 23 years later?

Both brothers have been played emotionally. Dean in hell, Sam on earth. Both were tricked, but I was so glad that in the end, they came together. I'm hoping it stays that way. I, however don't feel Sam was irrevociably changed. I would like him 'human' again.

My only qualm with this episode was the boring green room scenes. I understand why they happened, but I felt irked that Dean sat out most of the action, just as they've had Sam do in every other season.

I'm a little restored as far liking the show again, at least for the moment.

Bobby was all kinda of awesome in this, and YAY! for big brother Dean making a reappearance. YAY! For Sam's consciuous giving him a kick in the ass!

And YAY for Ruby being killed. I just wish it was more painful! That bitch!
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Irishgirl
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
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tammitam,May 15 2009
11:55 AM
What I want to know is ... why did YED go after kids in a later generation? He already had his choices, so why hit another generation 23 years later?

Maybe they were a backup in case the kids from Sam's generation didn't work out. Most of them died. If Dean hadn't made his deal, Sam would have been gone and Jake, while physically strong, just didn't seem mentally strong enough to handle everything Azazel would have required of him. Azazel probably wanted Rosie and possibly others as a just in case type of thing.
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rozzy
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Dude, You Fugly
[ * ]
Long time no talkee I know but having watched the season 4 two part finale I am left in need of a voice! I was so left in distress by the ending of 'WTLB' that I really could not see any hope for them Winchester boys... none at all... with them being being royally manipulated by the presumed side of all things good and evil.

Now though we have a form of redemption, in that our boys survived despite the machinations of the most powerful beings out there. Angels and Demons have proven to be us untrustworthy of each other and now both Winchester men have had that veil drawn away to see the truth and can plan their lives (together we hope) accordingly. Pity is that the damage done to them is so visceral emotionally we can only live in hope that some supernatural healing balm can now be applied to give them both the chance to be brothers in the truest of sense once again. However damaged or not I just love the fact tho' that both were able to say the words 'I'm sorry' whether heard or not. Now that is why I watch this show - the brotherly spark that makes it so special.

Speaking of messages I damn Big Bad Zec tampering (I presume here) with Dean's mail message to our Sammy - bad archangel - very bad indeedee... and I just live in hope this is picked up on the start of S5 so Sam isn't left feeling that his brother really did want to hunt him down and kill him. Them boys need to be brothers again despite the presumption of Lucifer saying howdee, or of archangels and sodding demons dogging their tails readying to screw everything up between them again.

After all they have been put through I hope that both Dean & Sam now realise that the only truth in this effed world of theirs is their love and trust in each other and give the finger to so-called destiny and all the crap that has gone with it
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rozzy
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Dude, You Fugly
[ * ]
tammitam,May 15 2009
11:55 AM
I liked that Dean broke the first seal, Sam the last ... it was ironic.

As far as Sam being stupid ... it wasn't his intelligence that was played, it was his emotions. Sam, while being VERY smart, is also very emotionally distraught, and I think this happened LONG before Jess. Remember what wee Sam said to Sam in the room. "I thought we were gonna be normal." I think Sam felt, no matter what was told to him, that he was always the cause of his mother's death. I mean, even John never denied it.

What episode was in in S1 ... Salvation? Sam said something like it was all his fault. John sat there, said nothing.

What I want to know is ... why did YED go after kids in a later generation? He already had his choices, so why hit another generation 23 years later?

Both brothers have been played emotionally. Dean in hell, Sam on earth. Both were tricked, but I was so glad that in the end, they came together. I'm hoping it stays that way. I, however don't feel Sam was irrevociably changed. I would like him 'human' again.

My only qualm with this episode was the boring green room scenes. I understand why they happened, but I felt irked that Dean sat out most of the action, just as they've had Sam do in every other season.

I'm a little restored as far liking the show again, at least for the moment.

Bobby was all kinda of awesome in this, and YAY! for big brother Dean making a reappearance. YAY! For Sam's consciuous giving him a kick in the ass!

And YAY for Ruby being killed. I just wish it was more painful! That bitch!


Like Tammi said Sam was being played emotionally negating any natural smarts after all he has been put through since Jessica's death. Ruby manipulated him to such effect that I was left hissing out my delight when she met her end - as in 'Ding dong the bitch is dead' - and just like Tammi I wished it had been a more drawn out death for that evil little hag!

Dean being stuck in the green room was way too long in screen time though it did give him time for reflection and allowed him to make that much needed call to Sam. I also enjoyed him calling out a lily-assed Castiel and that punch to his gob that really left a mark on his knuckles. Jensen's face mirrored the impact - it was great comedy acting.

And a moment to mention Bobby. That man rocked here, voicing words that Dean really needed to hear, an emotional kick to the jewells to remind him that Sam is 'drowning' and is still in need of his big brother. Go Bobby and pleeeeze hang around for season 5, as in you are so sorely needed for them Winchester boys, a better dad than John ever was after Mary's death.
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Spoilerwolf
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
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Okay, overall this episode was good. WTLB still had a far bigger impact on me than this one. But I'm glad that we saw the return of Big Brother Dean! (he's only been MIA for most of this season :P ) That was nice to see.
And It was poetic that Dean broke the first seal, and Sam broke the last.

Interested to see where this goes in S5.
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tammitam
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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SW ~ WTLB left me feeling gutted ... it ripped me apart nearly as much as AHBL1 did. Almost. However, I liked that the bro's came together BEFORE S5, so it leaves me feeling some sort of hope.
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MalAdjusted
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What Would Buffy Do?
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Hmmm, still pondering how I feel, (thrilled to have both brothers and Bobby still alive- did NOT see that one coming!) but I DO have a question-

What was the point of making Sam 'addicted' to demon blood? He could have swallowed Rubys advice hook line and sinker and allowed her to 'train' him all season and he would still have been strong enough to kill Liliith, still furious with himself for believing her, for choosing her advice over Deans.

We never saw Sam fall, never saw him take that first sip- never saw his struggle with addiction- when we saw it, he was already fully addicted- we were once again robbed of any actual insight into one of Sams SLs. We were made to suffer Lack-a-Sam all season because the audience wouldnt be 'sympathetic' to his blood drinking... (even though EDGs remained totally sympathetic to Dean when he revealed all the shit he did in hell- I guess EK figures Sam fans are wishy washy?)

Then WHY do it? It was not integral to the story, it caused further rifts in the fandom, caused tons of fans to despise one of the shows main leads, and all so we could play on it in the final 2-3 episodes? You know darn well the addiction angle will be completely dropped next season, because Sam 'shot his load' (thanks EK).

So, again, what the hell was the point?
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