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| Ratings thread; Summer 2010 thru S13 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 7 2009, 08:26 AM (4,125 Views) | |
| fandrea | Nov 7 2009, 08:26 AM Post #1 |
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You're Like a Walking Encyclopedia of Weirdness
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I thought it would be useful if we could have a thread to discuss ratings. All ratings info belongs here. ![]() Feel free to post ratings to other CW shows as well. Super Wiki has the ratings for past seasons and it's updated for the current season as well and also DVR and DVD sellings. But if you can't wait you can go to these sites as well: Pifeedback Tv by the Numbers Thanks for Donna (Scifidiva) for posting these. fandrea |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 8 2010, 01:13 PM Post #2 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I started doing this for my own “agony and ecstasy” quite a while ago but since most other forums have a “Ratings” thread I thought CWESS should have its own. Most ratings data is from PIFeedback (Travis Yanan) and/or SuperWiki ratings. During the regular season I will try to post the “Finals” rather than the “Fast Nationals”, however with Supernatural moving to Fridays I don’t know yet when the “finals” will be released. I don’t think “finals” are released for reruns. I’ll also include the demo breakdowns; The CW looks closest at the “demos” for “Young Women” 18-34, though demos for reruns are only posted for “Adults” 18-49”. Most if not all CW shows “substantially beat Supernatural” in the young women demo, with Smallville typically a close second and the reason is both shows appeal to more “young males” and Nielson viewers outside the range of 18-49. FYI- most of the ratings info posted on the TV tracking sites is still like deciphering "Enochian" :lol: to me no matter how many times I read explanations of what "any value" beyond the total, antiquated Nielson system "viewers in millions" means . These are the ratings for The Vampire Diaries, Supernatural, Moonlight and Smallville for Thursday 5/27, Friday 5/28, Thursday 6/3 and Friday, 6/4 in one block with subsequent weeks in their own post: Thursday 5/27/10 The Vampire Diaries (TVD) Ep 1.01: 1.80M (A18-49 0.8/3) Supernatural (SPN) Ep 5.01: 1.45M (A18-49 0.5/2) (80.5% retention out of TVD) Friday 5/28 – listed by interesting half hour breakdowns: Smallville (SV) Ep 9.01: 8-8:30 1.30M (A18-49: 0.6/ 2) 8:30 -9 1.14M ( A18-49: 0.5/ 2) (SV lost viewers in the last half hour) SPN Ep 5.02: 9-9:30 918,000, (A18-49: 0.4/ 1) 9:30-10: 1.02 million, (A18-49: 0.4/ 1) (SPN lost viewers out of the second half of SV and then gained 1000's of viewers back in the last half hour for an average retention of 79.5%) I believe some obsessed SPN Nielson fans didn’t realize the show was on 5/28 and that may be why the “numbers” rose in the second half hour; I didn’t know SPN was starting Fridays so soon until I was looking for something to watch besides the crappy “monster movies” the Syfy channel was airing for their Memorial Day “Weekend” marathon. Thursday 6/3/10 TVD Ep 1.02: 1.28M (A18-49 0.5/ 2) Moonlight Ep 1.01: 1.41M (A18-49 0.5/2) Friday 6/4/10 SV Ep 9.02: 1.04M (A18-49 0.4/2) SPN Ep 5.03: 1.27M (A18-49 0.4/1) but SPN “grew” “230,000” in total viewers out of SV. Also SPN had only “10,000” (0.01M) less viewers than Thursday 6/3’s TVD ----------------------------------------- The following represents my opinion only: Preliminary conclusions – For TVD, SV and SPN these episodes are have all aired (at least) three times and will be “3-peats” at least until episode 15 (in the case of SPN, barring 5.05 and 5.06 which have aired only once) and the Moonlight reruns are reasonably “fresh” unless you have the series either recorded or purchased the DVDs. Moonlight may be brand new to some Nielson viewers I’m sure so I would expect higher numbers. I still don’t like the move to Fridays although our total viewers were higher when SPN was paired with SV because retention was higher on average coming out of SV. I expect the new episode numbers to go down, too, I think SV’s S9 average was around “Live + Same Day” average was 2.35M, while SPN’s average was a series low of 2.67M because our retention wasn't nearly good "out of TVD" as SV. There are unsubstantiated “rumors” that JP and JA have already signed on for S7 (and 8?) assuming the show is renewed beyond S6. When rumors of S6 renewal were still unconfirmed, a poster on the CW board who works for a company that handles SPN’s DVD artwork/packaging (or something like that) for Warner’s said that Warner wanted more seasons beyond S5 and Peter Roth, head of Warner was photographed standing next to Dawn Ostroff at the 100th episode celebration party. So who knows, the “rumors” of J2 re-uping may be true. They are both recently married and may want the stability of a guaranteed paycheck for a few more years (assuming The CW renews the show, of course). If true, I hope The CW “backed up the Brinks truck” for each of them to put aside their dreams of serious post- Supernatural acting or directing work. The CW is reporting that S10 will be Smallville’s last season and if that’s true, the CW may want to try to keep Supernatural around for another few years to anchor Friday’s. |
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| fandrea | Jun 8 2010, 04:03 PM Post #3 |
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You're Like a Walking Encyclopedia of Weirdness
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I started a ratings thread for SN ages ago. Shall I move it over here? ![]() fandrea |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 8 2010, 05:20 PM Post #4 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I remember that thread; sure move it here, though my goal was to have a clean slate for the summer and S6 (or beyond). The source data for S5 (and previous seasons of Supernatural) can be found on SuperWiki Ratings. |
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| tammitam | Jun 8 2010, 06:10 PM Post #5 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I'm so behind this is the first I knew SN was moving to fridays. Wow! I am out of the loop!! |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 8 2010, 08:45 PM Post #6 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Yep... 'fraid so. But this could be a bad or a good thing ... it depends on whether the (antiquated Nielson System) Supernatural fans will follow the show to Fridays or if their "Nielson Boxes" are committed to DRV-ing another show and watching still another show other than SPN on Fridays. Here's the skinny from the CW Blog: 5/20/10: “NEW FALL SEASON PREMIERES WITH TEN HOURS OF ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING, INCLUDING TWO NEW SERIES, “NIKITA” AND “HELLCATS” ORIGINAL SERIES TO AIR IN EVERY TIME PERIOD, WITH ESTABLISHED FRANCHISES ANCHORING THE 8:00 HOUR ACROSS THE SCHEDULE West Coast Meets East Coast When Dramas “90210” And “Gossip Girl” Take Up Residence on Monday Nights Tuesday Night Brings “One Tree Hill” and “Life Unexpected” Together for a Night of Heartfelt Drama Wednesday Pairs Hit Reality Series “America’s Next Top Model” With New Pumped-Up Cheerleader Drama “Hellcats” With Stars Ashley Tisdale and Aly Michalka On Thursday, Red-Hot Hit “The Vampire Diaries” Teams with New Action-Packed Drama “Nikita,” starring International Star Maggie Q In The Tenth and Final Season of “Smallville,” Clark Kent Reunites with The Winchester Brothers When “Smallville” and “Supernatural” Team Up on Friday Nights New Reality Series “Shedding For The Wedding” (working title) Premieres Midseason And Transformational New Reality Series “Plain Jane” Premieres in Summer “Plain Jane” is scheduled to start Wednesdays, 7/28, from 9-10 pm after ANTM." The "move" doesn't affect me overly much as I (along with many fans) will try to follow the show anyway. It's really only the "Nielson Young Women Demo" that Supernatural has to be concerned about anyway regarding renewal beyond S6 - if a significant number of SPN fans regard Fridays as "Go out night" and either don't/can't watch "Live" and don't "DVR" the show (and watch by 3 am the next morning to be counted in the Live + Same Day), the "Young women demo" could take a substantial hit. And that can affect the renewal prospects IF the PTB's want a S7, 8 etc. If the ratings take a large nose dive, The CW and Warner might choose to clean house on Fridays entirely and either encore (for 2011-2012) their two top shows from the "previous season" or take a chance on either a brand new Friday line up or move one of their successful shows to "anchor" Fridays (Gossip Girl, TVD) and leave older shows (90210, LUX?) to anchor other days and use the vacancies to launch new shows. I'm slightly over 50% sure that SPN will get an S7 though, even if the ratings are dismal. OTOH, it's a moot point if J2 doesn't extend their contracts beyond S6 and the rumors of them "re-uping" are false. Some fans, particularly many non-US fans can't watch the show until Friday-Sunday anyway so SPN moving to Fridays will have little effect on them. |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 9 2010, 03:55 PM Post #7 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I found a site Sitcomsonline with data provided by “Pavan” – this link is also provided by the SuperWiki site - that gives “Final numbers” but it says not to reproduce it, so I’m just going to give the link, and add general comments. So ignore what I said before about “final data” not being available for reruns. For brevity I will only include comments on SV and SPN with the exception of Thursday 5/27/10 when I’ll comment on TVD. In the future I will provide both the “fast national data” for all four shows I’ll be tracking in summer 2010 on Saturday or Sunday and I’ll “comment” on the “final data” as provided on the website above after all data becomes available. Here again is selected “finals data” comments in one chunk. For complete data, refer to the first post in this thread. Thursday 5/27/10 TVD lost 70,000 viewers in the finals and 0.1 in the adult demo; SPN remained unchanged in viewers and demo. ]Friday 5/28/10 SV lost 13% (160,000 viewers) in the finals (based on the average of 1.22M in the fast nationals) and SPN lost 5% (50,000 viewers – average = 0.97M); the demos held for both shows. Friday 6/4/10 Both SV and SPN dropped viewers in the “finals”; SV dropped 13.5% (140,000 viewers) and SPN dropped 11% (140,000) viewers. SV also dropped 0.1 in the adult demo. |
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| tammitam | Jun 10 2010, 09:41 AM Post #8 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I wonder if those were Dean fans, mad that he wasn't THE be all to end all. Or Sam fans mad that they've ignored poor Sam for 3 seasons? |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 10 2010, 11:04 AM Post #9 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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It could be either. "Nielson Final numbers" sometimes go up (I confess I really don't know how) or they go down, sometimes dramatically in the case of "pre-emptions" in some "markets". It takes the network time to sort through those "local markets" (such at New York, LA, Chicago, Philly) where "Supernatural" (or any show) was pre-empted by a sporting event, President speech, etc. Since not every "market" pre-empts the show for a "sporting event" for example, The CW has to subtract the viewers who had the station on but they were airing a "sporting event" instead of Supernatural. In some "markets" they air Supernatural later that evening and the results are included in the "Live + Same Days" but more often Supernatural isn't aired until Saturday at some time and will be included in the "Live + 7 days" that are getting harder (for me) to find. Not even SuperWiki reported a source for "Live + 7" DVR ratings for S5 because the Live/7 numbers I found were either sporadic or reported only the "demo increases" not the "Viewers in Millions + increases in demos". Occasionally a poster on PIFeedback posts the "Market Breakdowns" and there's lots of US markets (I've never counted, but it seems to be very roughly a dozen). The "data" from the "markets" is "averaged" (I think) to provide the "Overnights" or "Fast Nationals". Then the "Final numbers" are adjusted up or down based on any later additions or subtractions. The "finals" for new episodes are usually reported by 5 pm, the "next day" except I don't know about Fridays yet, or reruns, because I never tracked them. Guess I'll find out "Saturday or Sunday" when I try to compile all the data for the shows. As I've said, my knowledge of the Nielson system is very crude. If anyone knows more about this stuff than I do they are more than welcome to comment or clear up my misconceptions. |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 13 2010, 12:48 PM Post #10 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Okey dokey ... I've been waiting for the "finals" for SV Ep 9.03 and SPN 5.04 to show up and rechecked the Sitcomonline site for weeks back - evidently reporting on the "Friday Finals" are usually delayed (as far as I can tell) until at least the following Tuesday. So, I'll give the Fast National on the four summer shows by Sunday and edit to add the "Finals" data. Thursday 6/10/10 Fast Nationals only TVD Ep 1.03: 1.42M (A18-49 0.5/2) Moonlight Ep 1.02?:1.19M (A18-49 04/1) Friday 6/11/10 Fast Nationals SV Ep 9.03: 1.08M (A18-49 0.4/2) SPN Ep 5.04: 1.14M(A18-49 0.5/2) SPN nudge’s out SV in at least the Fast Nationals in total viewers and adult demo for the second week in a row. Next’s week’s episode “Fallen Idol” is generally regarded as S5’s least liked episode, so I’m not going to be surprised if SV’s 9.04 beats SPN’s 5.05. Finals SV dropped nearly 15% in total viewers and held the demo; SN dropped only 6% but lost 0.1 demo point. This marks the third week in a row SPN has dropped less viewers in the “Finals” than SV with two/three ratings differences significant. At a second glance, it's actually since SPN's been teamed with SV, alhough this has the potential to change starting with 5.05 FI. Just a casual glance at the fast nationals for GG, 90210, OTH and LUX reruns for the last few weeks – SV and SPN's Friday reruns are beating the stuffing out of those 4 shows and doing at least 0.1 better in the “Adult demo”. I think this proves SV and SPN have greater "replay" value for the "Adult" demo than the young female (W18-34), demo does (say that three times fast :D) than those 4 shows do, because both shows have always had a more diverse audience within the age range (A18-49) of the adult demo, i.e., more adults over 34, and more males in the full "A" demo range can rewatch multiple times. (I'm disregarding the younger demo - both male and females of age range 13-25 for this purpose since I can't find any source of tracking data). |
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| Spoilerwolf | Jun 14 2010, 01:14 AM Post #11 |
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
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Awesome Donna This stuff totally confuses me, so it's nice for you to break it down ![]() Go SPN!
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| Scifidiva | Jun 16 2010, 10:12 AM Post #12 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Thank, Jess, but my understanding of all the statistics involved in the Nielson ratings system is really primitive. For example, take theoretical "young women demoes" of 1.5/5 and 1.6/4 - I'm using "CW size" numbers - I still don't know what the "/5" and "/4" really means; I just see that 1.6 is higher than 1.5 because that's the way SuperWiki seems to have done it when calculating the average demo in the three categories (A18-49, A18-34, and W18-34). I don't know if the people who do the averages on SuperWiki have any greater understanding of this stuff than I do because they link to sites I draw the data from. I'm going to make it my mission this summer to understand the Nielson system as it pertains to the lower rated CW shows anyway. |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 19 2010, 02:18 PM Post #13 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Fast Nationals for Thursday, 6/17 and Friday 6/18/2010: Thursday 6/17/10 Fast Nationals only TVD] Ep 1.04: 1.35M (A18-49; 0.5/2) Moonlight Ep 1.03: 1.23M (A18-49; 0.5/2) Friday 6/18/10 Fast Nationals SV Ep 9.04: 1.11 (A18-49; 0.5/2) SPN Ep 5.05: 1.05 (A18-49; 0.4/2) Not surprisingly SV “beat” SPN (slightly) in both viewers and demo because FI was on many fans weaker (est) episode of S5 list. What surprises me is the small gap in viewers between SPN and SV but I didn’t watch any of SV S9 to judge whether 9.04 was a subpar episode as well, which I'm guessing is a "3-peat", too, whereas this was only the second airing of 5.05. It will be interesting to see what 5.06 (IBCAOF)does because it will also be only the second airing but the cutey pie "antichrist" never showed up again, at least not in S6. 5.06 was a better episode than 5.05 that pissed many fans off more than it "helped make" Sam's case. Finals SV lost 90,000 (8%) viewers in the “Finals”, while SPN didn’t lose any viewers and both “held” their respective demos. Therefore SPN actually “beat” SV in the “Finals". This means SPN actually "beat" SV for the third week in row despite having "less viewers" in the "Fast Nationals". Comparatively, TVD fell 17% and Moonlight 11%. Both shows dropped in their demo meaning I think SV and SPN “beat” TVD and ML in the “Final demos” . SPN “Final” was only 0.04M [40,000] viewers less than ML, and this is quite good for a second airing of an episode that many fans feel is subpar against a show, although cancelled, some CW Nielson viewers may be watching for the first (although I have no means of verifying that statement). I’m not going to make a habit of reporting TVD and ML Summer Rerun “finals”, but I found it it interesting how close in viewers were for all four show in the “Finals” because only 0.11M [110,000] viewers separated the show with the highest in viewers, TVD, 1.13M, from the lowest, SV, with 1.02M. |
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| Scifidiva | Jun 26 2010, 03:43 PM Post #14 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Thursday 6/24/10 Fast Nationals only TVD Ep 1.05: 1.13 M (A18-49; 0.5/ 2) Moonlight Ep 1.04: 1.02M (A18-49; 0.4/ 1) Friday 6/25/10 Fast Nationals SV Ep 9.05: 1.12M (A18-49; 0.4/ 2) SPN Ep 5.06: 908,000 (A18-49; 0.3/ 1) SV’s “Fast Nationals” are about the same as last but SPN’s are awful both in terms of viewers and in the “adult” demo especially for an episode that has NOT repeated until now. This week SPN demo fallen to GG, OTH, 90210, LUX levels. A difference between last Friday and this Friday is last Friday Fox aired repeats of House (8 pm) and The Good Guys and this week Fox aired repeats of Bones and House. In the fall one of SPN’s ”Time Slot” competitors will be TGG and maybe SPN will perform slightly better against TGG than new House episodes. The only explanation I have could be that IBTCAOF introduced Jesse the “antichrist” and then never brought him back in S5 (good thing, too) Or maybe the low numbers and demo reflect that the Castiel “Nielson” fans were annoyed enough with the “Cas sitting on the whoopee cushion” the first go round and didn’t want to tune in round 2 of the show making Cas look foolish. Maybe SPN’s “numbers” will rise in the Finals. Finals SV fell just over 13% in the Finals to below 1M viewers; SPN fell just over 5%. Both held their demos. So far this summer it’s been consistent that SPN falls less than SV in the Finals or even “holds”. |
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| Scifidiva | Jul 4 2010, 03:26 PM Post #15 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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This will be a longish post because I will add more "commentary" :Thursday 7/1/10 Fast Nationals only TVD Ep 1.06: 1.49M (A18-49; 0.6/ 2) Moonlight Ep 1.05: 1.28M ( A18-49; 0.5/ 2) Friday 7/2/10 Again we have half hour breakdowns: SV Ep 9.06: 8-830 1.04M (A18-49; 0.4/ 2) 830 -9 978,000 (A18-49; 0.4/ 2 SPN Ep 5.07: 9-930 888,000 (A18-49; 0.4/ 1) 930-10 990,000 (A18-49; 0.4/ 2) Likely the lesser watched shows suffered more this Friday because lots of folks in the US that is, are taking 4-day weekends for the 4th of July. In the Fast Nationals, SV squeaked just over 1M with an average of 1.01M (1.009 which is a drop of nearly 10% from 1.12M last week. SPN averaged 0.94M (0.939) SPN improved over last weeks’ 908,000 viewers and in the more important this week in the adult demo and improved by over 100K viewers in the last half hour. The demo also improved in the last half hour from 0.4/1 to 0.4 /2 (whatever the “numbers” on the other side of the “/” means) from a dismal 0.3/1. In the US “July 4th “ is the “non- official” start of summer vacations so it would not surprise me if both shows average between 800,000 – 1.2M million through Labor Day, That’s one of the critical downsides to the CW shuffling SPN off to Fridays where expectations aren’t as high. Finals SPN bested SV in total viewers in the “Finals” but SV beat SPN marginally in “Adult demo/share”. SV fell nearly 7% in total viewers while SPN improved by 20,000 viewers. (edited) ----------------------------- I’ve been doing more research on what most of the “numbers” mean. “Futon Critic” reports ratings a little differently (they leave off the “numbers” after the slash – but I think those “numbers” [otherwise why report them? There must be some difference between “Adults” 0.4/2 vs. 0.4/1] are important so I’m going to dig deeper, thus far I haven’t found any info). For ex. using last Friday’s “numbers” for the shows, (keep in mind that the CW with rare exceptions is always the least watched network [hence #5, denoting 5th place among ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC]) so I disregard those the rank and the individual shows ranks, “And finally, repeats of "Smallville" (1.12 million viewers, #11; adults 18-49: 0.4, #11) and "Supernatural" (0.91 million viewers, #12; adults 18-49: 0.3, #12) on The CW (1.01 million viewers, #5; adults 18-49: 0.4, #5) rounded out the evening.” (From last week's data) I interpret “0.4” for SV as 0.4% of “All Adults” were watching SV and 0.3% stuck around for SPN. According FC for the 2009-2010 viewing season there were an estimated 292M (292,000,000) people above the age of 2 in the US and 132M (132,000,000) “Adults” between 18-49, so very crudely calculated a rating “0.4%” calculates to 528,000 viewers (0.528M) out of 1,120,000 total viewers (less than “half”) viewers were considered “Adults” and more viewers were outside those ranges, either under 18 or over 49. Extrapolating to this weeks’ “adult numbers” - both shows had the same % of adults tuning in. That’s as far as I’ve got on the first pass. Of course the CW considers the “Young women” demo more important than the “adult” demo – that’s an area that in regular season even shows like Gossip Girl that had overall lower numbers of viewers beat SPN and to a lesser extent SV because both shows attract more “young males” as well as both younger teens and older adults than the other major CW shows. But I can’t find a summer breakdown of the YW demo so I’m going to disregard it for now. There’s other numbers important to the rating system (like “Household share”) that I’m learning as to comprehend as I go. This is #9 from the FC “FAQS”: “9. What about TiVos (or other DVR services)? Does Nielsen track those viewers? As of January 1, 2006 Nielsen has added DVR viewership to its audience sample. In the case of "fast national" ratings, the data includes all DVR playback through 3:00 a.m. eastern time that day.” I routinely DVR SPN and always “play it back” later that evening (or sometimes immediately after if I’m not watching another show at 10 pm on the TV with the DVR). I hope my “playbacks” are counted in the Nielson ratings as “Live + Same Day” or “Live + 7 (days)because I’ve read conflicting information; FC suggests “my” playbacks are counted. I think only the official Nielson viewers count in the “Live” numbers. Just over 5000 US households have “Nielson boxes” (participate in the Nielson rating process) so every rating (including “Households”) must be heavily extrapolated from the small pool of Nielson box-equipped households. |
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quite a while ago but since most other forums have a “Ratings” thread I thought CWESS should have its own. Most ratings data is from PIFeedback (Travis Yanan) and/or SuperWiki ratings. During the regular season I will try to post the “Finals” rather than the “Fast Nationals”, however with Supernatural moving to Fridays I don’t know yet when the “finals” will be released. I don’t think “finals” are released for reruns. 


1:53 PM Jul 11