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| Episode 5.22 “Swan Song”; Episode discussion and rating poll | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 13 2010, 11:51 AM (840 Views) | |
| Scifidiva | May 13 2010, 11:51 AM Post #1 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Episode 5.22: Swan Song THE APOCALYPSE - The entire season has been leading up to this showdown between good and evil. With the Apocalypse looming, Sam and Dean realize they are out of options and make heart-breaking decisions that will change their lives forever. A beloved character is killed. Steve Boyum directed the episode with teleplay by Eric Kripke and story by Eric Gewitz. --------------------------------------------------------------------------:fire This is it – the S5 Finale and (as stated by EK and the writers) the wrap-up of the 5 season “Apocalypse Arc”. It’s been a bumpy ride, both story wise and characterization wise, for both brothers. Overall, IMO only, it’s been a fun, exciting and scary ride and hopefully this finale will be close to what Sera Gamble (in an S4 interview) said Eric Kripke had already written. Since EK said the show has always has been about LOVE of FAMILY, HUMANITY and coming to terms with both brothers’ internal DEMONS prevailing over all else, and not “Supernatural” entities of any kind, I fervently hope this season ender which was supposed to be the series ender reflects the HEROIC struggles of strong but flawed, dysfunctional humans. On a personal note, but more as a BiBro fan who strongly leans to Sam, I hope the show makes clear to all fans, that Sam is just as heroic as Dean has always been. I must admit the “Sam will have to consume gallons of DB to prep his body to “contain” Lucifer scares the hell out of me (assuming Castiel is correct) because I can’t imagine any way that Sam will come out of this looking as “righteous” as the show has set Dean up to be, even if the entire cast of TFW (Bobby, Dean, Cas and maybe Crowley) helps him collect it. Even if everyone on TFW has killed “demons” with Ruby’s knife without worrying unduly about it (except Sam wanted to be able to save the two “possessed” teens in GGY like “he” used to”) and even we ASSume that most of the human hosts are “mostly dead already”, this is different, this is intentionally setting out to accomplish one goal – re-cage Lucifer – but it is the same rationale as Ruby used on Sam in S4 to assuage Sam’s guilt – that they were “saving the world”. One way to look at this (draining HUMANS) and still face yourself in the mirror of your conscience, is to “clinically” look at sacrificing "a statistically insignignant number of non-combatants" as a necessary strategy to achieving that one goal – as the Old Testament “God and His Angels did” and worry about the state of your soul afterwards. This is what the human leaders of all the world's conflicts have done in all of recorded history. Hopefully there will be a future without the need for war but that time is not now. Again this my personal opinion and is not intended to reflect the views of the CWESS Administrator or its members. So …enjoy the episode and come back to rate! |
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| Spoilerwolf | May 13 2010, 07:02 PM Post #2 |
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
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Fingers crossed this all goes well for Sam
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| tammitam | May 13 2010, 09:19 PM Post #3 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I voted pretty good, though I am still debating on that choice. It was rather anti-climatic. And the end was ... sorta humdrum. I felt, I dunno ... cheated. It was the worst finale ever, even if Sam did die a hero. Chuck as God was the best part of the episode! On a plus ... Sam did not sit throughout the fight pinned to a wall! |
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| tammitam | May 13 2010, 09:38 PM Post #4 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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And ... despite all that ... it left me sniffly! |
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| Scifidiva | May 14 2010, 12:24 AM Post #5 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I haven't rated it yet but I see where you're coming from, Tammi. It did have a non-cliffhanger feel and wasn't an upbeat as the S2 non-cliffhanger. But then, there wasn't supposed to be an S6 so Sam leaping into the Pit and Dean learning the very hard lesson that the Winchesters never learned - letting go of a loved one - and stop the deal making merry go round and try to go with his life might just have been "series finale" EK intended. Maybe he even intended to show Sam at the end to show the audience that Sammy was fine. If there were no S6, Dean wouldn't have to worry about Sam suffering in Hell. That's the promise Sam extracted from Dean, and the very one Sam failed at - of course, as shown in the finale Sammy had demons keeping tabs on him all his life, so Sam never really had a shot at a normal, hunting life, let alone pursuing a normal, apple pie life as he wanted Dean to do. |
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| tammitam | May 14 2010, 06:05 AM Post #6 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I'm not saying it was horrible, I actually liked it ... however ... after 5 years of fighting I expected far more. |
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| Scifidiva | May 14 2010, 12:48 PM Post #7 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I’ll be back later or this weekend to give my complete write-up. EK did say this was the “Walmart Apocalypse”. I think the fact that they showed increasing worldwide disasters on the store TV screens after Sam was overtaking by Lucifer highlighted the devastation without actually showing it. I didn't really expect the "Prize Fight" to take place either, because what TFW was trying to prevent. I went into the finale with only one firm expectation and it was met admirably. Sam was unmistakably a hero and moreover Sam’s “crucifixion imagery” that portended he would sacrifice his life and soul was actually used, and not dropped like some other Sam sls. And Dean had a sweet JC-like moment, too, of saying "I forgive you, Sammy" or something like that - unbelievably I've only watched this episode (my VCR screwed up for the second week in a row). I've just finished d/l my Amazon Unbox version and will watch that and take notes. I had a few disappointments with SS and am weighing whether they warrant dropping my final rating from Awesome to Pretty Good. One, of course, is common to many fans – the amulet didn’t seem to play any role that we know of. Sam didn’t give it back to Dean and may not have even fished it out of the trashcan. I’m pretty sure “what happened to the Amulet” will be asked at future Cons. The second was Jake Abel didn’t sell me on being Michael’s "Plan B" vessel, at least not as well as Matt Cohen did. . |
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| Mikiya | May 16 2010, 11:46 AM Post #8 |
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Oh, Eat Me, No Wait, You Actually Might
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Okay, so I'm still feeling weird about everything, not even sure whether in a good or bad way. I think the demon-blood-thing was completely dumb and pointless (if the demonblood was keeping Sammy's body from exploding as soon as Lucifer had put him on then why on earth did Sam have to go through whatever that demon blood did to him while he was killing Lilith? Why didn't Nickifer just drain a few demons more to keep his old vessel? I don't really get why it had to be Sam as vessel if he, just like any other vessel, had to drink demon blood to be strong enough as a vessel, I really thought he was special in some way) and I think it was handled in the typical Supernatural-too-painful-to-watch-fashion, those scenes were completely ridiculous, I'll never believe that a human is able to drink THAT amount of blood (or anything else for that matter), if he is addicted to it or not, it's just not humanly possible. I missed Crowley. This whole deal with Bobby and his soul... either they are saving it for the next season or it's just over and done with, but building it up and then not mentioning at all seems weird. I don't think Chuck was God. Just a feeling. I don't know who or what exactly he was but I really don't think he was God. My favourite scene was Dean telling Sammy that "it's okay, Sammy, I'm here, I'm not leaving", that one tears me up just thinking about it. Jared... have no words for him. Really, none at all, he was... awesome is too weak, really. I loved Dean in this episode, he is finally back and I can look at him and watch him on screen without rolling my eyes at him. Adam-as-Mike (sorry, don't know the actor's name) didn't convince me, I didn't buy his Mike, this whole air of arrogance, of being the older brother that John-as-Mike had was gone. I think Lucifer is right though, God created him the way he is and so God wanted him to fall and he wanted the Devil and I really feel sorry for him. (And YES it is as weird to write it as it feels to read it...) There's so much more to this episode but I just can't put it into words. |
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| Scifidiva | May 17 2010, 10:43 PM Post #9 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I voted "Awesome" because besides a couple head scratching moments and some minor disappointment in a character's performance, Swan Song was a very satifying episode. After only two re-watches I decided that this is my favorite finale, even better than Devil’s Trap. It had everything I fell in love with about Supernatural and love of family, not superpowers, saved the day. I loved the return of big brother Dean, who loves his brother above all else but still recognized the need to allow Sam to grow up. Dean had another lesson to learn though and this was that he had an identity outside of being Sam’s older brother and chief protector and maybe that’s some of what the ending was supposed to suggest. Being unwilling to let go was a major part of Sam’s S4 downfall, because he hadn’t learned the Trickster/Gabriel’s lesson and he definitely didn’t just live his life while honoring his father’s and brother’s sacrifices. Sam said (not in so many words) that the cycle of sacrifices must end with him. Dean was trying to honor that promise, although he didn’t appear to be very happy in the ending. I loved JP as Sam, whose fear about giving himself to the Devil was so strong I could almost smell it coming off him in waves. And when he finally bested Lucifer for control he looked so scared to throw himself in the cage, then looked at his broken, almost unrecognizable, loving, big brother, Dean and then overcame his fear; he was a complete peace with himself and (I think) peace with God – God had saved him once and he knew Heaven wasn’t closed to him and this faith gave him strength to bare what could be an eternity in Lucifer’s cage in Hell. I am going to miss Mark P as Lucifer, because he did a fantastic acting job, yet, ye gods, JP nailed playing Mark as Lucifer, with Lucifer’s calm and reasonable approach yet having the underlying evilness. (I loved Nickifer’s drawing the pitchfork on the chilled window). The Sam/Samifer mirror scenes gave me chills. JP must have been thrilled to get the opportunity to play "Samifer" again. I loved the back story on the Impala – the most important "Object" in the universe. I like Chuck’s narration but I’m not convinced that he’s God, at least not until maybe the very End when he was wearing a pure white shirt, rather than his striped, prophet like bathrobe. And if Chuck is God, he (or He) only told Dean the location where the battlefield of Armageddon was to take place and he allowed Dean to make the “free will choice” to find his “brother” or not. Dean knew he had less than a snowball's chance in hell going up against both Godzilla and Mothra, he was determined to try - or die - one more time and he wasn't going to leave "Sam" to die alone if Michael killed "Sam". Seeing Dean not give up on Sam inspired Castiel and Bobby to try harder to find faith in Dean’s decision even if they didn’t have faith in Sam’s ability to seize control of Lucifer on the battlefield. And their diversion (and sacrifice) allowed Dean to have his "5 minutes". Everyone of TFW played an important role. Regarding the DB, no one looked happy about Sam’s allegedly needing it. I wonder where Bobby got the intel from (Crowley, is my best guess)? I hope the "stunt demons" were dead already because Crowley killed them and strung them up like sides of beef ready to have their throats slit to be bled. Part of me thinks that DB will be an issue in S6 and part of me thinks that plotline will fade into history and Sam may or may not have powers in S6. I’m a Sam’s powers fan but I don’t want him drinking DB to use them, mainly because Ruby said that it wasn’t the blood. I did enjoy the whole Samifer bitching out Castiel for “molotoving” his brother “Nobody dicks with my brother but me” and proceeds to “chunky soup-ify “ Cas again. Hee. Yes, I’m evil and I don’t much care for Castiel. I like that Lu had very similar feelings as Sam would have if anyone messed with Dean. It was a good scene though watching Mikey go up in flames. Dean had some really beautiful lines and he was the Hero that Mikaya already stated that got through to “Sam” so Sam could triple lindy into the box. If Mikey hadn’t interfered – if he just walked off the chessboard like Samifer wanted them both to, Mikey wouldn’t be spending quality time with Lucifer in the cage. If I had to guess Mikey failed the test that God had set for him, too. I hope that the PTB’s are saving the amulet for S6 and have not dropped it entirely. In my fan ficcy world, Sam was again wearing it under his shirt as he was in Lazarus Rising and drawing comfort and strength from it. (He didn’t give it back yet because he knew it would be too emotional for both of them and they needed to be totally focused when entering Lucifer’s Lair.) He’ll give it back to Dean when they are reunited and then we will get the hug ‘felt round the world”. That’d what I hope will happen and another topic I expect to be addressed at Cons before S6. Who brought Sam back or did he “escape” himself? How long was he imprisoned with AdamMichael and Lucifer? Were he (and Adam) beamed out of the cage instantly by God as soon as Lu and Mike were deposited there? Why did the light blow out? Is it the electric residue of God or did God bring Sam back with some of his mojo intact? Is Sam a spirit and his body is lying comatose in a hospital somewhere? What does it mean “that’s the last time Bobby and Dean will see each other for a long time” – what counts as a long time – months, years? Does that mean Sam will see Bobby first and make him promise not to tell Dean? Dean didn’t look happy and content but he seemed “at home” with Ben and Lisa. Did the “time jump” already happen when “Sam” stood outside Lisa’s door and looked in? These are some questions I’ll ask in a new Speculation thread. |
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| Scifidiva | May 17 2010, 11:15 PM Post #10 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Excuse the funky color - the "quote" feature doesn't appear to be working tonight for me.
I agree 100%. I think Lucifer was a little different from the rest of the angels because he had a mind of his own and so was created to Fall, and to tempt Man (and Woman) in challenging God’s plan. Satan was an important component of God’s granting Man “free will”; there was no FW until Satan was successful in tempting Eve to take that bite (of the Apple or of knowledge) because it wasn’t necessary – it was all Paradise but in Dean’s words a “Stepford Paradise”. If there’s no Evil, how would "flawed humans" recognize Good? |
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| sammycat | May 21 2010, 11:59 PM Post #11 |
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I Full-On Swayze'd That Mother
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Well, I voted Awesome on this one. It was definitely a "series finale" in feel, even though Chuck was used to basically brush over all the fallen threads the show never ever dealt with (I never got how they could mock Lost when Lost has been weird and time-jumpy but question-answering nontheless). God enters Show to give it His Immortal Hand Wave. "Behold! For I shall not even pretend to answer what you want answered!" I can honestly say that I've never liked the Vessel storyline lining up Michael with Dean and Lucifer with Sam, as I could never visualize it going in any direction that would be honestly satisfying. However, I do think both Show and Kripke managed to allow Sam to exist inside Lucifer, or Lucifer inside Sam, in a dramatically plausible and even a psychologically interesting way. So, good on that score. I don't think Jake Abel was so bad as Michael that it drew me out of his scenes with Jared as Lucifer. Tons of JA fans are claiming this, because they wanted JA to have those scenes instead. He didn't give a strong impression, though, either. OTOH, he wasn't there for very long, so to me, it didn't matter so much that he was sort of 'cannon fodder' in a way. Michael had to be Michael and say his lines, but the drama was really between Lucifer and Sam, not Michael and Lucifer. That's why it doesn't phase me that much. I view it this way, Michael was there to be a Dick, he was a Dick, the End. Purpose served. If JA had those same lines, Michael would still be a Dick. The idea of BOTH Sam and Dean fighting off and either winning or not winning control of their archangels seems like a good idea on one hand, but to me, it would be pretty repetitive, and then you'd get bitching about which brother broke free first and all kinds of garbage about that. Here, Dean got a solid, heroic role that was about giving Sam a chance to break through Lucifer's hold on him. If he'd been Michael, we would have had redundant storylines for both brothers. I found Lucifer's relationship with Sam very fascinating on a character level for both Sam and Lucifer. I think Lucifer wanted the companionship, oddly enough. He wanted to guage Sam's emotional responses (first by rewarding Sam by killing all the demons sent to spy on him growing up and secondly by punishinig Sam by trying to kill Dean), he wanted Sam to be aware, and most importantly, he wanted Sam to have a voice. We've never seen either a demon or an angel do that - communicate internally with their hosts. I think they either let them sleep or wake them up, but that's about it. I think this comparison with other creatures is important, because if you look at Michael's approach to Dean, it's pretty contemptuous of Dean's humanity and will and personhood, starting with the use of a middle manager, who totally misunderstood Dean's psychology and just abused and insulted him over and over again - I am speaking of Zachariah here. Fun to hate, sure, but it doesn't reflect well on Michael as a tactic at all. Michael is first and foremost, even less personal in his approach than any angel we've ever seen on the show. It's a big rule for an angel to ask their chosen vessel for permission to enter the host, but Michael was either too high and mighty to do this job himself, or he simply didn't care to until TSRTS. The fate of the world, the angels, and heaven may have rested on Michael's securing his chosen Vessel, and he just couldn't be bothered to contact Dean in person. In this sense, Jake Abel's monotone delivery as Michael fits this character, as someone simply devoid of any human feeling at all. Anyway, my theory on Lucifer with Sam is that Sam was not only some THING but some ONE that Lucifer would want to wear as a vessel. Hence, he was willing to actively engage with Sam and give Sam a chance to wrestle back control. It was a risky proposition for both characters, in a sense, since Sam risked losing himself, while Lucifer put his own plans at risk just to see if Sam could do it. So, for me, Lillith represents Lucifer's hatred and loathing of humanity while Sam represents Lucifer's love of free will and the ability to exercise it. Though human, Sam is his Special Child. Think of it this way, demons represent a corruption of humantiy, the lowness of humanity, and though Lucifer created them, he has no love or use for them, either. But he can accept Sam at a certain level, which means he can respect Sam at a certain level, too. Lucifer is certainly a human-destroying evil monster, there is no denying that, but in terms of personal motivation, Lucifer respects Sam far more than Michael ever respected Dean. With Dean, I don't know why Dean fans hate his Big Brother role so much. It is truly his best and most heroic and most lovable role on the show, so why put it down even if they hate Sam or whatever their issue is. The less big brothery Dean is (seasons 3 - 5, frankly), the more a hard-case douche-bag he sometimes comes across as. To me, Dean has floundered between being a cold fish towards Sam or a quivering wreck about himself in front of Sam. Love, caring, and understanding of Sam? That has been rare since season 2, I hate to say. At least in this episode, we can see he gives a crap about his little brother for once. And isn't that nice? Doesn't it finally feel good to watch them interact again? It does, it damn well does, feel better than much of what we've gotten over the past seasons. I like this Dean and I'm proud of him for going out to the battlefield to give Sam another chance at breaking through Lucifer's control. Dean was heroic and he inspired Castiel and Bobby to be heroic, too. I didn't like Lisa and Ben as the ending for Dean, as they kinda sucked when they were introduced in season 3, mainly because Ben was such a literal knock-off of Dean that it was embarrassing. For me, anyway. *shivers* Dean, Lisa, and Ben were the weakest parts of TKAA, even if that is what the episode was about. Anyway, Dean keeps his promise to Sam to give a normal life a chance with Lisa. So, Dean lets go of Sam on a number of levels in this episode - let's him battle Lucifer from the inside out, at almost certain risk of annihilation or death, let's him fall into hell, let's him stay in hell. Dean lets Sam go, as a promise to Sam. Is he happy in domesticity? I think he will be, though I wonder how he'd handle certain things, as I don't think Dean is a healthy person. He's been a resentful bitch ever since John died. The emotional bleed out on Lisa and Ben should have consequences over time. Should, but probably won't. As for Sam, oh Sam, he did give himself up to sacrifice and he did save the world. Funny how taking up demon blood to destroy Lillith was wrong but doing the same thing to defeat Lucifer is apparently okay. Goes with my theory that SPN is an amoral universe at this point. Anyway, Sam was just heart-breaking in this episode, as he's been really for the past few seasons, with a lost character just getting more and more confused and lost along the way. As much as Sam gets nailed for being prideful or angry, what he is most of the time is scared and worried. And that is exactly what he was here. Terrified of Lucifer, of failure, of loss of self, of death, of hell, of the cage. Sam risked everything in himself to cage Lucifer, and he did it, that success and heroism belongs to him and what is the point in pretending Sam didn't do it? Some people have to tear down Sam's sacrifice and heroism to feel good about Dean, or Castiel, well, shame on them. A hero is a hero, and Sam was a hero. It is that simple. Sam saved the world. He had a plan, it failed at first, but with Dean's help, Sam then succeeded and fought his way through to take down both Lucifer and Michael. What is so terrible about admitting that Sam did Good, with a capital G? Anyway, to most sane eyes, Sam died a hero and he should be respected as one. Sam's fate at the end was very up in the air and mysterious. I would have been pissed as hell if the show hadn't ended on Sam's face in some way. On my first viewing of the episode, I was again literally crying because Sam had been cut out again so Dean could go blither on about himself. So, having Sam show up, for those last precious few seconds, saved this episode from my usual Sam-less end of episode bummer. Like I give a crap about Dean with Lisa, no, I don't. I care about Sam and Dean. By necessity, that includes Sam. I wanted and needed to see Sam before that episode ended or it would have ruined me. So, I was glad to see Sam, in however enigmatic a capacity. I want Sam to be Sam. I'm not sure I need him to be human, because humanity to me is about character, and no one is more human than Sam on this show. No one. I want him to be screwed up and changed by his experiences. But I also want him capable of happiness, too. I want his powers back, fully explained finally. And I don't want him to be evil, ever. Dark is fine by me, but not evil. I am so sick of that tease that I just don't want to go back down that road with this set of writers. They are far too careless and heartless with Sam to be trusted. So, I mostly loved the episode and I loved Sam and I loved Sam and Dean. That's about it. The vessel/apocalypse plot was always silly, so what were people really expecting in the final round up? Less silliness? Really? Anyway, for what it was worth, Kripke did a beautiful job with Sam, Dean, and the Impala and one ending for the show. |
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| Scifidiva | May 22 2010, 12:59 PM Post #12 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Wonderful post, Sammycat! I love that EK came through at the end, sticking to his guns and putting “Love of Family & Family Bonds” above all else to give most of us a very emotionally charged though gut-wrenching season finale. I’m with you – I loved Sam showing up so mysteriously at the end and I don’t think the Dean/Lisa/Ben family thing will last (but I don’t want Lisa and/or Ben killed off by any entity “supernaturally caused” or human “home invasion”). I agree with your assessment of Jake-as-Michael; and I (in subsequent re-watches as I alluded to previously) thought AdamMichael may have been intentionally written that way – as seeming younger and more petulant than youngJohn Michael because “Adam” was much younger than “Sam” whereas even the younger version of John was SamnDean’s (and Adam’s) father. Castiel even said in PONR that Adam was “John’s bloodline” and “Sam’s brother” and “it’s not perfect, but it works”. Yes, even if Jensen had played Michael, I assume JA would have portrayed Michael as closer to Matt Cohen’s “Michael” and the original plan might have been for both of them to vessel up but I can’t see a point in the finale (unless it was radically changed – Jim Beaver seems to say that the finale was close to the original version) where Dean would have gained control over “Michael” the Dick, because “Michael” was “Hell Bent” on killing his brother because he was the “Good Son”. Maybe Deanael would rip Samifer’s shirt and see that Sam was wearing the amulet and that sight would trump Samifer’s seeing Sam’s toy soldier jammed into the ashtray of the Impala. I agree that fans would be in uproar over who broke through first. And yes, the series finale could have been both brothers hurling themselves into the cage. Instead I loved the way the finale played out and there was nothing inconsistent if we look at The End as an example of the most probable future and the finale remained true to EK’s stated vision of “Family and Free Will” trumping “Supernatural Plans and Destiny”. I loved that Dean never said Yes, although he came close. To me, Dean’s remaining a “powerless human” charging in and staring down Mothra and Godzilla, two of the most powerful being besides God, because he wanted to talk to Godzilla!Sam was much more thrilling (even though I agree with Tammi that it was “understated”), then watching Samifer and Deanael trying to kill each other with one of them “controlling their archangel” and then convincing their brother-angel to lay down their sword. I’ve been reading sn.tv and some “Dean fans” who wanted JA to vessel up have changed their opinions and now quite like the finale while others (very hard core EDGs) are still fuming and feel that the Show deprived JA of the opportunity to play Michael by bringing in Plan B, Adam, and by giving JAckles “rightful arc” to Jake Abel. I don’t think is the case even if the show was re-structured (episode 18 was re-written to bring back Adam, and that required the later episode to be altered and I’m just assuming it was, we won't know unless the "original script" is ever released) because the show was renewed for S6. Best “canon” example: the show never said the “Righteous Angel Condom” is the only one who could “stop it” it said “Righteous Man”. Once Death insisted that Dean was only One to whom he could give both his ring and the instructions on how to use the “Ring Trap” to this act set off the chain of events that ultimately allowed Sam to seize control and jump into the cage himself and by not stopping Sam/Samifer from doing “that” firmly established that Dean was indeed the “Righteous Man” (I’m trying desperately not to roll my eyes) who chose Family over Destiny “because it was the right thing to do”. Both of them did and that’s what makes both brothers heroes.
Firstly, you're absolutely right about Michael having no respect for Dean. Both Zachariah and Michael thought Dean was an insignificant maggot, not a heroic human, and it surprises me that some "Dean fans" wanted Mike to wear Dean to the prom. Of course, the fans probably thought Dean could easily wrest control from Michael but I really don't think so. Much of what gave Sam the ability to take control from Lucifer is that Lucy had already allowed Sam the freedom to get into his head; Michael would have never allowed Dean to gain even an inch into Michael's psyche. Totally agree with your statement above and this is a large part of what makes the “theme” proposed in Swap Meat (that only Sam’s “meatsuit” was necessary – any occupant could say Yes to Lucifer) patently awful. Lucifer wanted more than Sam’s body, he wanted “all of Sam” and in his own way he was attempting to make Sam “happy”, “…while Sam represents Lucifer’s love of free will…” is a perfect assessment. I look at the Devil as the first example of Free Will. I got the idea of that Lucifer wanted Sam to have some say over how his body was used, as if Lu was offering to share consciousness on some level because they were “two halves made whole”; there was absolutely no sign of making a similar deal with Nick, because Lucifer was upfront with Nick and said he needed (Nick’s permission) to take (total) control off his mind and body. |
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| sammycat | May 22 2010, 06:36 PM Post #13 |
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I Full-On Swayze'd That Mother
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Yes, I did find the mirror-mirror scenes with Sammifer very very fascinating. I really think Lucifer would understand Sam's frustration at having demons spying on him and possibly influencing him without his knowledge to be something worth avenging. Only Lucifer even knew about them, as Sam did not. But he saw it as something bad for Sam. They were YED's plan and YED was Lucifer's agent in hell, or on earth, whatever. YED was some kind of tight-fisted ruler in hell at any rate. Makes me think of YED and Michael as being cut from the same cloth, sadly. To me, the Michael on SPN turned God's Utopia into a Dystopia full of control freaks.
Makes me think that The Good Son might be A Bad Brother. I don't know if Show really wanted to pursue that line, but it seems like it was implied in that scene. Maybe they just didn't have the guts to sully Dean the Fantasy for the viewers. But if you look at Lucifer asking Michael to simply walk away from the Chessboard, and Michael's refusal, that is an echo of Sam refusing to fight Jake, because that was what YED wanted them to do. Jake thought playing the game, killing Sam, was his only out and his only chance to be a soldier in some capacity. Instead, Jake just wound up as YED's bitch, and then got killed by Sam anyway. Michael = Jake = Dean. Also, in the Prodigal Son story in the Bible, it is the Older Son, who always played by the rules and was always good to his father, who gets slapped down for being resentful of the Younger Son's happy reunion with his family. The YS was lost and then found, so the Father wanted to celebrate out of simple joy. The OS was overcome with resentment at this joy, and it is the resentment issue that resonates with Dean's character since season 3, or even season 2 after John's death. Which leads me to some ideas from Dean fans I've seen saying that Sam didn't beat Lucifer, but that Lucifer just let go, perhaps because Dean seemed like the awesome Big Brother he never had. Well, they would go there. But I think Lucifer might have been willing to let Sam take him off the chessboard to avoid killing Michael (and I think he would have tried killing Michael given the chance whether he wanted to or not), not because he magically saw Dean as this great brother he never had. I think Lucifer may see Sam as the brother he never had (two halves, MFOE), but not Dean. Dean was just a trouble-maker to him at that point. I don't discount the theory that Lucifer could have let Sam take over on some level, but if you look at how the scene plays out, it is Sam's resurfacing consciousness that over-rides Lucifer, not Lucifer deciding to take a nap all of a sudden. All this resentment over the Power of Love letting Sam win over Lucifer is sad but predictable. Sam won, so he won. |
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| tammitam | May 22 2010, 07:19 PM Post #14 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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Awesome analogies guys! I have to reiterate that my dislike of this episode, mainly, is that ... it was a series finale, not a season finale. It is my view of what in the hell are they going to do next season that makes me question this episode. I adored the brotherhood again -- I adored everyone's roles in this, though I do think Chuck was God. It gave him an inside track to watch and such. Also a reason he 'knew' even if the angels weren't talking. My personal opinion is that Sam was a spirit, and nothing malevolent. Sam's herorism (and Dean's, his "I'm not leaving you, Sammy." kills me!) is outstanding and it tears me up ... even if I saw this as the ending of SN at sometime early Season 3. I wish I could write it all down as eloquently as you all!! |
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| Scifidiva | May 26 2010, 02:32 PM Post #15 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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No need to justify your “dislike” because your point is valid – it did seem more like a series finale than season, with the exception that I would expect the series finale to end with the boys on the same “physical plane” – either both dead saving the world together, or both alive and a version of “We got (more) work to do” and the show would end with the boys on the road to their next “job”. Now with the show renewed, the “both dead ending” might seem very anticlimactic given that TFW was responsible for ending the apocalyptic prizefight. If this had been the series finale, however, I’ve already said I expected a bittersweet finale and this could be Dean moodily keeping his promise to Sam and Sam as non-malevolent Spirit!Sam and watching over Dean until Dean’s death so the brothers could “move on” together because they were soul mates. If this had been the series finale one could say that Sam (redeemed himself) sacrificed his life to stop the prizefight, his soul was “somehow” detached from his body and stayed earthbound waiting for Dean. Dean (reluctantly) learned The Trickster’s lesson (“Sometimes you just have to let people go”) and was trying to honor his promise to Sam even though he was fighting against it internally. Dean would (have to) learn to live and go on without Sam, even if he didn’t find what he was searching for with Ben and Lisa. “All this” would be tremendous “growth” for Dean because it would make him realize that “being a protective big brother” does not define his entire identity as Bobby reminded him in AHBL 2 when Bobby realized Dean had made a “Crossroads” deal for Sam – Dean’s life holds more a lot more value than as just a big brother. |
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So …enjoy the episode and come back to rate!




- it was still a great episode.
Wonderful post, Sammycat! I love that EK came through at the end, sticking to his guns and putting “Love of Family & Family Bonds” above all else to give most of us a very emotionally charged though gut-wrenching season finale. I’m with you – I loved Sam showing up so mysteriously at the end and I don’t think the Dean/Lisa/Ben family thing will last (but I don’t want Lisa and/or Ben killed off by any entity “supernaturally caused” or human “home invasion”).

9:16 AM Jul 11