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How would you rate “The Third Man”?
Awesome! 0 (0%)
Pretty good 3 (42.9%)
It was okay 3 (42.9%)
Meh 1 (14.3%)
Parts were okay, but it could have better 0 (0%)
Didn’t like it 0 (0%)
Hated it… this episode should be salted and burned! 0 (0%)
Total Votes: 7
Episode 6.03 “The Third Man”; Episode discussion and rating poll
Topic Started: Oct 8 2010, 02:00 PM (424 Views)
Scifidiva
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Official CW Desciption:

CASTIEL RETURNS - Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) call Castiel (Misha Collins) for help when they investigate a case about several dead police officers who seem to have been killed by the plagues of Egypt. Castiel confirms the staff of Moses was used to kill the cops and tells Sam and Dean that Heaven is in a state of chaos and God's weapons have been stolen. The three head off to find the thief and come face to face with an old enemy.

Bob Singer directed the episode written by Ben Edlund.

:waves: Enjoy the episode and please rate and discuss

Ratings note: I've read that this episode will pre-empted for a baseball game in the "CW Chicago TV market, the #3 TV market in the country". I expect more impact on the "Final Ratings" early next week.
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Irishgirl
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A Big, Steamy Pile of Nothing
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I voted it pretty good. I would have said awesome if it weren't for two things. One, Sam's care? Why did they have to destroy her. I know it's probably so Dean and Sam can travel together, but couldn't they have let Sam park her at Bobby's for the foreseeable future. Two, I love Cas, but what happened to the angel who called Sam his friend. I can't believe he ignored Sam all of that time.
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tammitam
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I actually liked Castiel more in this episode than any since he was on ... because he was more true, more honest, than he's ever been.

I haven't rated yet, mainly because I am mulling it over before I do.
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fandrea
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You're Like a Walking Encyclopedia of Weirdness
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Sorry I am taking it down...

fandrea
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Kyshal
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I would like to say I enjoyed this episode, because sometimes I think I did... But just like the last two episodes The Third Man left me feeling a little flat.

I feel like I don't have an emotional connection to anything that has been going on this season, which is a trajedy of the highest order! That's what I always loved the most about this show, that no matter how f***ed up and crazy it got I still FELT for them, I saw where the boys were coming from and understood their motivation.
This season? I don't know if it's the new style (is it just me or is the show moving very fast? Yet still it seems like nothing is happening) but I feel a real disconnect from my boys. Especailly Sam, and that breaks my heart. All I can say is that there had better be a really good and emotionally satisfying reason for Nu!Sam or I am going to cry :sad:
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tammitam
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I'm not sure why Fandrea.... :huh:

Kyshal ... welcome to the board!!!!!!

And I agree 100% ... that has been my biggest issue this season is I feel like ... meh. I mean, I mess on the computer during episodes, when years past, I was GLUED to the television.
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Kyshal
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Exactly! There was a time when if someone even walked around in the apartment above me during an episode I would flip because I was so invested! Now? Now I play solitare at the same time. I miss that. Even during all the Season 4 angst I was still rivited. I want them to have their groove back!
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Scifidiva
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fandrea,Oct 9 2010
05:57 PM
Sorry I am taking it down...

fandrea

May I ask why? Because I added responses to nearly your whole post but I've been super busy and only found time to post now. It was excellently written. Acck! Now I have to rewrite most of it so it makes sense.

I rated the episode "Pretty Good".

:waves: Welcome, Kyshal. I felt the same way about the premiere - something is missing. But I think it's getting better slowly, I am interested in what happened to Sam in the Cage and whether that's 100% source of his dysfunctional behavior or his detachment is also because of year hunting alone and with the Campbell's. I can't stand Dean's faux family and the fact that the brother bond is so broken - for now, at least.

Anywho, fuller post tomorrow.
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fandrea
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Aww crap, moved the post to my LJ and forgot the link...

linkie

Ramblings and speculations abound... Be warned! :lol:

And I rated it It was okay, since parts of it were boring. But I still liked it though. :)

fandrea
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Scifidiva
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fandrea,Oct 12 2010
08:52 AM
Aww crap, moved the post to my LJ and forgot the link...

linkie

Ramblings and speculations abound... Be warned! :lol:

And I rated it It was okay, since parts of it were boring. But I still liked it though. :)

fandrea

Thanks, for the link Fandrea. How do want me to respond, since basically I diced your post up into pieces and added my own comments? As I agreed with most everything you said, to "re-state" your episode analysis in my own words would sound like I was plagiarizing.
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fandrea
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You can quote it here. :)

fandrea
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Scifidiva
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fandrea,Oct 12 2010
12:00 PM
You can quote it here. :)

fandrea

Thanks, Fandrea. It's going to take some time to reformat it and I noted that you made a small change to one section.

Until I can make my changes and post, feast your eyes on this, kids :angel: :thud :

Hang this picture on your 'fridge!

:wubble :jump: :wubble

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tammitam
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*Just died..................................................* :thud
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fandrea
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......................................... And went to Padaheaven. :thud :thud :wub:

fandrea
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Scifidiva
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My "response" to much of Fandrea's original post. Fandrea's "quotes" in Blue.

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Ok my first gut reaction is: Average. My rating: It was okay.
First off, the gore. Now that was ewwww... Especially the way the poor cop just went -SPLAT- Or the second cop with the boilings and the third one with the bugs. Disgusting.

I decided to rate this one “Pretty Good” even though I’m far from a Castiel fan, I’m intrigued by the idea of “Civil War” in Heaven being intertwined with the mystery of Sam and Samuel’s resurrections and the “Monsters Gone Wild” theme of S6. I did note – and possibly this was an omission on the writers’ part – that Castiel didn’t mention Samuel’s “resurrection” at all, just said “Heaven wasn’t responsible” for “Sam’s Return”” and “God hadn’t returned”.

Yes, TTM was disgusting but par for course for a BE episode. I was ok with Splat guy and with Bug guy but on subsequent re-watches a “FF-ed” through the Bubble Wrap guy. UGGH!

I agree with your rationale of Sam’s hiring a “Pro”. Sam now looks on sex as a business transaction only and he even reminded the callgirl that she forgot her payment. Even with a ONS he’d have to make some small talk with the gal and Sam offered no information to the pro. He wasn’t rude and the pro clearly had had a great time but he wasn’t going to offer any information. He was Mr. “Very Mysterioso” as Lindsay (FTBYAM) said.

Ok moving on... The hotel room scene with them calling Castiel was amusing and I liked Castiel beeing angel like again. This is how I imagine how an angel would act. And I liked how he said he didn't call because Dean called but because why Dean called him. And Sam's hello's. I am so gonna rip one of them onto my phone. Hahaha
Also loved Dean ripping Castiel a new one for not answering Sam

I’ve never cared for the angel storyline much and Castiel specifically, but I agree that I both liked (and disliked) him more in the hotel scene (after the DeanSlashCas moment, of course). He was back to the same “Angel of the Lord” d*ck angel who threatened to throw Dean back into the pit again (4.02) if Dean didn’t show him more respect.

Now the little boy. Well he did get off lightly considering he killed 3 cops. And sold his soul Also interesting the look on Sam's face. He really seemed curious as in a: "Did that happen to me too?" way... Again that was my impression. That Sam perhaps got reminded of Lucifers posession (he was rooting around inside his head afterall) or hell. Again, just me.
I actually didn’t interpret the scene that way – this time in the episode (in a later scene, yes, maybe). I felt Sam seemed to be remembering “torture” when the boy was writhing in pain. But you might be dead on in your interpretation. I have to rewatch that scene carefully.

The angel vs angel stuff was boring, but it did raise the point of the angels beeing out for themselves and beeing not so different then the demons. And they also buy souls.
I liked Balthazar and I got the impression that Balty was the first angel to “buy” a human soul in exchange for giving the person (a weapon of “God” or part of) what he/she wanted most to achieve – in Aaron’s case he wanted “God” to strike down those the lying cops. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Balthazar and his “cache” of “Heaven’s stolen weapons” and possibly one or upcoming episodes will feature both Balty and another person who sold their soul and performed a destructive or murderous act.

Sam looked really frightened when Castiel told them Raphael was a tradionalist and sought to put the Apocalypse back on track.

Now when the boys and Castiel talk to Balthazar the camera does cut to Sam during the talk. Significiant? No idea but I heard of theories of Sam's sould beeing still in hell. (But then again his body makes it topside but his soul not? How does that would work, especially if they couldn't even get Dean out of hell and he wasn't in the locked up cage, well I presume it is locked up) Though I am thinking a deal might be involved. Perhaps someone bought Sam's soul and quasi owns him. Maybe Sam has to do something to get free from hell for good. No idea really. But clearly, this is foreshadowing methinks..
This where I “picked” the “Wonder if that happened to me?” vibe. Could be Sam has a split soul (part of Sam IS still in the Cage). Or, “Someone” bought Sam’s soul, and has Sam on a leash just as Lucifer had Death on a leash. Or, part of Sam’s and Lucifer’s personality traits merged because they were MFEO and were scrambled by whatever “Force” resurrected him and that’s why Sam has moments of “Cold/Cruel, Angelic, detachment” and sometimes the “Warmer, empathetic Sam personality” peaks through, particularly when he’s alone with Dean. Whoever resurrected Sam (if the “force” and owns his soul) could have wiped his memory, except that Sam feels compelled to hunt 24/7 but he doesn’t know why.

The “boy” and Bobby had both sold their souls and weren’t walking around like Zombies. I agree and really suspect that this episode implies that there’s something going on with Sam’s soul but I don’t what yet. Lucifer did say he and Sam were two halves made whole, maybe if the show is smart, that statement will have meaning, as well as Sam downing the enormous quantity of demon blood when the show didn’t have to write it that way, Sam was Lucifer’s true vessel, end of story, no added DB necessary.

Balthazar said human souls are a valuable commodity and which humans have the most valued souls – Sam and Dean, as true vessels for the most powerful archangels. Raphael could be picking up where Michael left off – before his vessel was turned to salt, that is, and while I don’t think he has the power to unlock Luci’s cage personally and resurrect Sam (leaving Luci on ice for the moment), he wants the apocalypse back on track with prize fight to be on again.

Rafe wants his “Paradise on Earth” and he was thwarted by two flannel wearing maggots. First he plans on taking control of Heaven then if it plays as S4 and S5 (I really doubt it will though), will collaborate with high level demons to free Lucifer (and Mikey). And Raphael didn’t really zero in on Sam – as Luci’s vessel, or Dean for that matter. He just focused on kicking the crap out of Castiel in a rather lame scene if you ask me.

Now I also liked the little Sam in peril moment of having a knife to his throath. Doesn't happen often. *g*
Yeah, 3 cheers for Sam in peril but actually I would have preferred if Dean was the one in peril and Sam had sent “the angels to the outfield”. BUT I HOPE that the show was wise and IF Sam had drawn the sigil with his blood, if it didn’t “sizzle”, that would be 90%+ “Proof Positive” that Sam didn’t have ANY demon blood anymore, and I’m HOPING that the show is leaving the question of “Is Sam demon blood free” as a mystery for now.

What I disliked were Dean beeing suspicious at the end again and I am generally annoyed by the Dean beeing the moral compass idea.
I don’t like it either, and while I’m certain that “New!Sam” is meant to be shown as being mostly devoid of empathy, Dean (in contrast to S6 Sam) has been the self-righteous, frequently overly self-righteous, “Moral Compass” since S3 , so it’s not really so new as Dean’s moral compass has been supercharged by his obligations to his “Pod!Family”.

Dean’s overly “moral compass” almost interfered with Castiel’s investigation and if the show had not proceeded with Cas’s “torturing the (murderous) young teen”, the trio wouldn’t have obtained Balty’s name, located Balthazar and learned that he had stolen not only the staff of Moses but more weapons. As Bobby said in NRFTW “With the right name, and the right ritual, there ain’t anything you can’t suss out”.

Names have Power, especially on Supernatural in dealing with Angels and demons(and in some cultures it’s the reason why at birth children are given one name and another ceremony some years later to get their “real name” which is often kept private). The teen didn’t have “Balthazar’s name” but if he had, and told Castiel, there would have been no need to “read the brand” on the teen’s soul. By learning Balty’s name and that he was selling his “products” in return for people’s souls, the Winchesters could – in theory – save other people. Dean offered no other solution and they couldn’t exactly put Balthazar in a line-up to have the boy pick him out. Dean couldn’t use his knack with “children” to get them the information they needed.

Plus, as you said, the boy wasn’t innocent, horribly murdering the three cops. Sam was concerned enough about Cas’s plan to “read the boy’s soul” to ask if that there would be no permanent damage to the boy and was assured there wouldn’t be and that Castiel was right and the cops would return the boy to his home. So I really didn’t see Sam as cold and devoid of emotion concerning the teen.

With that said, however, I’m very surprised Castiel let his “brother go” after Balthazar released Aaron’s soul. I don’t blame Dean at all for having major objections to that because now they (Castiel and the Winchester) know that there’s a dangerous rogue angel with both the stolen weapons of Heaven at his disposal and likely selling pieces for human souls.

Though I liked Sam packing in his weapons. hahaha I wish we could have gotten glimpse into that car. See the trunk, maybe even listen to what music Sam listens to etc...
As I said on another board, I think the show missed a golden opportunity here. Maybe New!Sam through away his IPod and no longer listens to any music but I’d like to have been shown some of the personal touches Sam had added to his car, and now it’s too late. I HATED Dean’s “Silver Lining” comment, too, just as much as when Dean through Sam’s IPod in the backseat of HIS CAR in Lazarus Rising. I didn’t that that was funny ha ha either – it’s like the show’s working a little hard to show the audience that Dean’s POV is the only thing that matters, since Supernatural is usually from Dean's POV.
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