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| Episode 6.10 “Caged Heat”; Episode discussion and rating poll | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 3 2010, 01:17 PM (323 Views) | |
| Scifidiva | Dec 3 2010, 01:17 PM Post #1 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Official CW synopsis 6.10 “Caged Heat” MEG’S BACK! — Meg (Rachel Miner) kidnaps Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) and tries to force them to tell her where Crowley (guest star Mark A. Sheppard) is hiding. Sam makes her a deal – they will help her find Crowley if she promises to torture him for information about how to get Sam’s soul back. Castiel (Misha Collins) joins the fight but finds it difficult to work with Meg. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Brett Matthews with story by Brett Matthews & Jenny Klein. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enjoy the episode and then rate. The promos look very exciting!
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| Mikiya | Dec 4 2010, 07:21 AM Post #2 |
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Oh, Eat Me, No Wait, You Actually Might
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Okay, the bad first: I hate comedy-relief-Cas. I don't think angels and porn are funny, not at all. What I've been missing all season is someone (I don't care who anymore) says something like "no matter what Sam is, he is still a person who deserves to be saved". It pains me greatly how he is reduced to being a "mutilated thing" now and has apparently lost all personal value for the show, he is something that needs to be fixed, not a person anymore. How easy is it to get the drop on the boys these days? I mean, they are demon hunters for God's sake, but it seems that everybody and their dog can get a hold of them anytime they want. Crawley... NO, I'm so gonna MISS him... ![]() The good: That scene with Sam biting his own arm.... Dudes, my skin is still crawling, that and the smile were awesome! I like that Sam no longer tries to pretend that Cas is his friend but that they are more like working-partners. There's some more, but I can't remember right now, have to watch it again. All in all I'd give it a "pretty good". Maybe. Don't know yet. |
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| tammitam | Dec 4 2010, 10:57 AM Post #3 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I voted pretty good. I actually liked Casteil's scenes -- it wasn't like he knew what porn was, it was just on ... and I found it hilarious. Dean's reply to him was humorous! "You don't watch porn with a roomful of dudes, and you don't discuss it!" Sampa busts in. "Is that what you all do all day? Sit around watching Porno's?" Castiel: "We're not discussing it." Castiel has always looked at Sam as a thing ... Dean, however, I think needs to save Sam's soul, after all, this Sam doesn't feel it, but damn ... his soul is going through hell, literally!!! I understand Dean's need to rescue it -- after all, his soul went through torture for 4 months, so he knows, or can guess the suffering Sam's soul is facing. I wonder if Adam is stuck in there too. No one has mentioned him at all. Sam biting his arm ... was awesome! I sat staring going, WTF is he doing???? Until that smile. God that was classic!!! Meg's laugh!!!!! "Why are you laughing?" Dean stabs demon possessed cousin. Meg: "Because Dean Winchester is right behind you." Crowley's demise was sad ... though I guess really needed to get past this empass ... but still ... RIP Crowley you bastard ... as a villian you were among the best!!!! Though no one beats Frederic's YED ... he ROCKED! Though Papa W came close. The end was sad ... Dean wants so much to rescue his brother's soul ... but Sam, the Sam that can't feel ... doesn't want to feel that pain, even if it makes his "A real boy." Not sure why I voted pretty good since most of this episode was awesome ... I think it was because Crowley died ... though that part was sorta awesome too, lol!!! |
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| Mikiya | Dec 4 2010, 12:01 PM Post #4 |
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Oh, Eat Me, No Wait, You Actually Might
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What bothers me most about Sam's soul-thing is that I think we (or Dean) have/has to respect his decission that he doesn't want it back and that putting it back in again, against his will, is wrong. It's not only the fact that he'd feel the pain and horror and whatever negative emotion you can name again but also the possible danger of him going insane or simply dying of shock, both Cas and Crowley have made it pretty clear that he most likely wouldn't survive it intact. (Of course, I as a viewer know that they probably won't go down that road since that would basically kill one of the two main leads.) I understand that Dean wants his brother back (I'm not sure I want the old Sam back, but that doesn't matter right now) and, for once, I'm not blaming him for that, but I think Dean has to realize that forcing Sam's soul back is wrong, since if it goes bad it won't be HIM who has to live with the consequences. And as long as Sam doesn't agree with this plan and is actualy willing to take that risk Dean would be risking his brother's life for his own advantage. (And no, for once I am not trying to make Dean look bad, alll I'm saying is that he has to respect the choice Sam's made.) By the way, all that leads to the biggest problem I have with the current story line: The only thing Sam learns about having a soul, right now, is that it means suffering (in the dark (sorry, that one still has me giggling ) and possible insanity, basically, everything is worse when you're having a soul. NOBODY thinks about trying to tell him about the good side, the advantages, love, peace, freedom, whatever. Right now it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to want it back and I'm expecting him to (rightfully) be fighting against having it back. And I really can't blame him for that.
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| tammitam | Dec 4 2010, 01:11 PM Post #5 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I agree with you in part ... however, this is SS, not full Sam, and a piece of him, a viable piece ... is being tortured. Me, personally, I think I'd rather die than have the part that makes me me not only left out, but be left to be tortured. At least if he did die, he'd be put to peace. Soulless Sam can't make a realistic decision being only half him ... because he's making it based on one side. It would be like awarding custody of a child to one parent based on that parent's side ... without giving the other parent a voice. As for your argument on what he's learned a soul is, ITA!!!! They haven't told him the good that having a soul is. That he'd have Dean's back because he wanted to, not because he felt obligated. That he loved Jess with all his heart, and a piece of him died when she did. That when Dean died, it crushed him so badly he wanted to die with him. And while all of this sounds bad, there's more. That his heart lit up when Dean and he lit the fireworks. That the day he met Jess he felt his world come to life. That, while their lives might have sucked, he and Dean still found reason to laugh! That, quite honestly, the world is a better place with them in it -- even if it doesn't realize it. Just ask all the people that they've saved from things they didn't even know existed. |
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| Scifidiva | Dec 6 2010, 12:25 AM Post #6 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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First stream of conscious then detail: I was disappointed in several things but it was a very good to awesome episode. I think the reveal confirmation that Crowley raised Sam’s body and Samuel (intact from Heaven) seems far too easy. I was hoping for more of a twist - like Crowley admitting he didn't know who brought the "Sams" back and was just taking advantage of the situation leaving the "storyline" open for a powerful brand new entity that we've never encountered to be responsible. And now Crowley's dead. I don't know why Crowley wouldn't tell the entire truth when Castiel threatened his bones. (I wonder if Crowley’s gone for good, though). Did Sam’s “remains” fall through the Cage into Hell, while his soul was trapped with the other soul (Adam’s?)/Angel Graces, and that’s how Crowley was able to resurrect Sam’s body so easily? And if Samuel was in Heaven, no demon has ever had the power to pull a “soul” out to resurrect without a deal being made. Did Crowley just take advantage of the disarray in Heaven to pull uberHunter Samuel Campbell down and offer to bring “Mary back” if Samuel hunted for Alphas for him? But I agree why bring SoullessSam “back” unless Crowley wanted another super hunting machine. It still bothers me about Crowley and Sam and Samuel … I would think there’s more to their resurrections than “Crowley brought them back” – and the entity that brought Sam back had another purpose. I keep thinking there’s more to the story it might just be that simple. In truth, unless our “promised Sam’s cage time reveal” was 6.10 – and I hope it was the beginning at least – I’m still not 100% positive that Sam’s soul is in the Cage. I’ll go into more this later in the post. I was also disappointed with the ease Castiel found “Crowley’s bones” and torched them when he said he couldn’t get Sam’s soul out of the cage; Crowley was a great character – when he “escaped” from the DT I though “Ah ha Crowley lives to be a PITA to the boys again”. I’d rather Meg had been killed so I don’t have to see any more cringe worthy scenes between her and Castiel. (Although Meg telling the boys to get Crowley for her while she took on the hellhounds was very brave-ish – sort of Firefly/Serenity’s “River Tam” against the Reavers.) I agree with Mikiya that RoboSam handled Castiel magnificently. Because Sam felt no fear he was able to threaten Castiel without breaking a sweat and in doing so Sam showed Cas how much Dean and he needed Castiel’s help. ROBOSAM was BADASS! When he was in his cage and bent over a bit his wrist I thought we were going to see some POWERS!Sam - like Mikiya and Tammi I got chills - but the DT drawn in his own blood was both awesome and unexpected! Grandpa Samuel let me down big time – I hoped he’d change his mind and be an ally to Mary’s children. I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of him. I’m not entirely sure why he continued to be Crowley’s “sucker” unless the other CRDs were forbidden to deal with him to resurrect Mary. Possibly he will change his mind – but Sam did turn out to be right because Samuel continued to see them out after Dean didn’t let Sam shoot him. (And now it’ll probably be okey dokey if Dean faces Samuel again and kills him but Dean and Grandpa [and re-souled Sam] are likely to reconcile than for Dean just to kill Samuel). The blood sigil that Samuel used to temporarily banish Castiel was different from the one we have always seen used on the show before. I wonder if this is significant? The “prison” housed other monsters and I think the intention was to destroy it but I doubt the “Purgatory” storyline is over. The Alpha Shifter may be dead and other alphas may be dead but the Alpha Djinn, possibly the alpha Vamp (I don’t think I saw him) and the Alpha Skinwalker at least are alive and building armies. “Mary” may be in Purgatory, and John, too, because Ash couldn’t find them. I wonder if Hell is going to get a new King or if that storyline is played out at the present (except for retrieving Sam’s soul). Purgatory is still prime real estate, Hell and likely Heaven adjacent, and is the home of all monster “souls”, which are probably very valuable as currency/weapons. I don’t blame Sam for not wanting his soul back and for the reasons he gave – both Castiel and Crowley thought it was a very bad idea because they thought “it” would be too damaged. (I think there is a slight possibility they have been working together). I also think he really didn’t want Dean to risk his life anymore trying to recover it. To Sam, “logic would dictate” that they cut the losses while they could. After all, “souled Sam” was the one who told Dean in no uncertain terms NOT to try to “bring him back” because it was too dangerous to go poking at the Cage. But obviously Dean is going to try anyway because he wants his whole brother back and is willing to deal with any negatives associated with Sam’s re-souling. As to the whether or not Dean has the “right” to force Sam’s soul down “his gullet” I see both sides of the debate. The problem with Sam seeing any value in getting his soul back is hasn’t seen a good reason yet, all he sees is that his brother suffers from having a soul – he hasn’t seen Dean experience one moment of true joy since they’ve been together. Sam has memories of good times with his father, Dean and Jess but he also knows that through most of his life he had one devil after another on his shoulder so that many of the good memories are overshadowed by the sheer horror of having his life manipulated. Mikiya and Tammi have expressed the Sam’s re-souling situation beautifully so I won’t add anything to their posts. On to detail – On supernaturalspoilers forum, a poster speculated that the Alpha Shifter infiltrated Crowley’s “Monster Prison” to rescue his infants disguised as Crowley, but tripped some alarm and got caught and I replied that was very logical. I was thinking that Samuel C & Co had found a way to “bag him” but her suggestion makes more sense. The Alpha Shifter said he could sense his offspring so it would make sense to shift into Crowley to get his babies back. I really hope the Alpha Vamp did escaped The character was an amazing actor and his “connection” with both boys (Dean as his “former child” and Sam as his “perfect animal”) needs at least part of or an entire episode to be explored thoroughly. They showed us the Djinn Girl the Campbells bagged, it would make some sense if they showed the Alpha Vamp imprisoned, too, but possibly Crowley killed him already. The Alphas do not want to give up the location of Purgatory even under threat of torture or death. I DO wonder Who or What Crowley “source” is that claims the alphas know where Purgatory is. Is it Raphael or another high ranking Angel? Or another supernatural species we’ve not seen before and this limited “Intel” is either offered willingly as an ally or did another Alpha “talk” but would only tell Crowley the Alphas knew the location but wouldn’t say anything else. This episode raised even more uncertainties than it answered questions. After CH the only thing I’m certain of is that Crowley was bluffing the whole time when he could snap his fingers and give Sam back his soul. I’m not entirely certain that … 1. Crowley pulled Samuel from Heaven and resurrected him. 2. Crowley pulled “Sam’s body” from the Cage but wasn’t “skilled enough” to pull “all of Sam out”. Why would he even risk freeing Lucifer and Michael and losing his “throne”? 3. Crowley’s “gone forever” - did he get part of what he wanted – a ticket to Purgatory? 4. Castiel and Crowley working NOT together against Raphael? Castiel seemed to find “Crowley’s bones” easily and Cas and Crowley both talked about retrieving Sam’s as a bad idea because it was so damaged. 5. Sam’s soul is really still in the Cage. If Crowley really did “pull Sam’s body out (or material to resurrect it)”, “Soulless Sam” has “been out” since a day to at most several weeks since he and Michael took the plunge. Chances are Crowley hasn’t been checking to see if the Cage is still locked so how does he know (or did he know) Sam’s Soul was still in the Cage? How does Castiel know it’s still in the Cage? I’m NOT saying that Sam’s soul has been drinking Strawberry Daiquiris in Heaven, but if it has been locked up “alone”, it’s suffering from sensory deprivation at a minimum. From IMTOD and Bedtime Stories, dispossessed souls that suffer extended sensory deprivation and frustration can be driven insane and even violent. Even if Sam's soul is not presently being physically or psychologically tormented by two PO'ed archangels his soul is still suffering, plus "Sam remembered" the Cage and "it didn't agree with him". One of the themes of this season is that “Nothing is as it seems” and another is “Trust No One”. But nearly everything that’s happened so far has what many suspected from the beginning – that something was terribly off with Sam and many guessed that his soul was gone and few trusted Grandpa and the Campbell Cousins particularly Christian. Well Christian turned out to be one of Crowley’s demon henchmen, and Grandpa talked a big game about wanting Dean to join their hunting party because they were family, and said he empathized with Dean because Mary wanted out of the life as well, but betrayed them to Crowley not once but twice. And there’s Crowley, talking tough about owning Sam’s soul, and being responsible for Sam’s partial and Samuel’s full resurrection, pulling him out of Heaven no less, an act no demon no matter how powerful has ever been able to do with angelic assistance. I don’t trust much of what my ears have seen and my ears have this season, because so far, everything “resolved or semi-resolved” has been too “pat”. I HOPE there has been more going on then we’ve seen/been told so far. Samuel asked Dean in EOMS “Did Sam tell you what we’ve been dealing with the last FEW months?” (Not the last YEAR). Maybe he misspoke or maybe Dean does have something to do with some monster related anomalies in researching ways to bring Sam back. (Not necessarily with Alphas building armies – I think that is in conjunction with the threat to Purgatory by Crowley or the civil war in Heaven). It’s logical for Crowley to want to “use” Samuel as a hunter with generations of lore at his disposal plus years of hunting experience himself but why risk “freeing Sam”? I’m really iffy about Crowley’s claims. And then there’s Hell. Is Meg going to take over as the new boss demon or are demons/hell going to be downplayed for the rest of the series? We’ve never had a demon not be one of the Big Bads of the show before. Are the “What are the Alphas up to” storyline and the Heaven Civil War going to replace all of the Hell related storylines (intertwined with retrieving Sam’s soul and possibly be revisiting the Dean/Lisa/Ben storyline that I doubt is completely over). |
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| Anna | Dec 8 2010, 10:53 AM Post #7 |
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I Had a Crappy Guidance Counselor
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i actually voted awesome for the first time this season...this was amazing. loved having Meg back! 'Dean Winchester is behind you' that was fantastic... i agree with what everyone said above-no-one has told Sam the good parts about having a soul. I miss the old Sam but every episode just seems like the chances of getting him back are getting smaller and smaller...looks like there is going to be some pretty serious Sam-torture later on... I just want to yell to him, don't give in, a soul has positive sides too, noooo! Castiel said to him 'you need help' and hell that's true...'i need your help'. that is so right. no-one is giving Sam any sympathy-dammit his soul is in the cage with Lucifer and Michael and this is not his fault! the arm biting was weird but cool. I guess the advantage of having a character without a soul is that they can do terrible, horrible things like that with a great character now...super disturbing but it was just like Sam completely owning everyone... this was one of the best episodes this season, mostly cos of all the angst! amazing how Sam still gets in the middle of all that when he can't even feel it...Jared is a fantastic actor... |
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| tammitam | Dec 10 2010, 10:03 AM Post #8 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I think Jared's version of Anti-Sam (cause it's so opposite of the Sam we all love!) is just awesome!!! |
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| Scifidiva | Dec 10 2010, 02:05 PM Post #9 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I agree with Anna when she says that the show can have soulless Sam do anything it wants because the show made us aware that Sam has no soul and Tammi, I agree, every version of "Sam", Jared portrays awesomely. I voted Awesome btw ... I didn't see that I made that clear anywhere in my post. |
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Enjoy the episode and then rate. The promos look very exciting!




) and possible insanity, basically, everything is worse when you're having a soul. NOBODY thinks about trying to tell him about the good side, the advantages, love, peace, freedom, whatever. Right now it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to want it back and I'm expecting him to (rightfully) be fighting against having it back. And I really can't blame him for that.
3:15 AM Jul 11