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| Episode 8.23 "Sacrifice"; Episode Rating and Discussion thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 15 2013, 03:47 PM (198 Views) | |
| Scifidiva | May 15 2013, 03:47 PM Post #1 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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Episode 8.23 Description With Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) poised to undo all the good they’ve ever done as hunters, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) find themselves cornered. But with Kevin’s (guest star Osric Chau) help, the Winchester brothers bound into one last play against The Demon King. Written by Jeremy Carver and directed by Phil Sgriccia ================================= This is it, the S8 finale. Some people loved much of it, others disliked it, and most are hoping that it will wow us and make us dismiss (or less likely, celebrate, if the season's intentionally been "AU") the drastic changes to both boys' characterizations thru 8.09 and the apparent canon mistakes throughout the season. I hope to be wowed and enthusiastically and impatiently wait for S9! |
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| Scifidiva | May 15 2013, 06:50 PM Post #2 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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A little over an hour to go here on the East Coast! Tissue and Chocolate ready .
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| Scifidiva | May 15 2013, 11:47 PM Post #3 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I honestly don't have a rating yet but then I rarely do after one watch. Some parts I liked very much, other scenes I thought were boring, I thought it would have made a better cliffee if Sam really stopped breathing while Dean was yelling for Cas, I loved that Dean gave Kevin the key to bunker (and loved, loved, loved that I was wrong about Kevin biting dust), loved the Bunker lights going crazy, and enjoyed the ending with the Angels falling - that was unexpected and great SFX. (long sentence :lol: ) Metatron having his own agenda I saw coming in early 8.22 - the moment he didn't give Cas a similar speech as he gave Dean. Now I am obviously not a Cas Fan but this time the show made him look far more foolish than they ever did for working with Crowley. |
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| PadalecKitty512 | May 16 2013, 01:32 AM Post #4 |
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Bring it on, Baldy
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Not ready to rate this one quite yet. But I have some things that I really need to get out, right now...which actually ended up turning into a full ep review just about, so here goes: So, coasting along rather smoothly...boys have tricked Crowley, getting ready to cure him, Cas and Metatron doing their own thing, m'kay. Paying pleasant enough attention. And then...comes THAT scene, out of nowhere, that made me feel like I'd been kicked in the chest...you know the one. Those 'confession suggestions' that Dean threw at Sam, and they left me feeling just plain...deflated. I can't think of any better word for it, b/c I was just laying there not believing what I was hearing. Then it just honestly infuriated me b/c good gosh...there we had Sam giving that little smile to Dean after saying 'for once, it feels like we're gonna win' - finally, FINALLY, a Sam that had confidence and hope and was rising up from being so beat down...and then he asks an innocent question...and then Dean says THAT. I guess the reason I could only come up with the word 'deflated' for how I felt, is b/c that word so fits what happened with Sam...I know he's not a real character but the way Jared played it, I could literally feel his heart and spirit sink...and not even just down to where it had been, but even lower...possibly to its lowest yet. I KNEW, at that point, he had totally lost the will to live, that his own 'light at the end of the tunnel' had just been snuffed. And who can blame him. It's what I felt too, and I'm sorry, but I just felt such...indignance for Dean at that point. For one thing, I thought back to that speech he gave back in 6.16, the whole 'clean slate' thing...and thought once again, like 'Southern Comfort' had made me to do, what a crock of BS Dean had proven it to be. BUT, I at least had the luxury back in SC of, in the end, chalking it up to an evil spirit twisting Dean's thoughts to come out as worse than they really were. I had given Sam that benefit of the doubt in 'Asylum', and given it to both boys in 4.14 with the siren, so it was only fair that I did it that ep with Dean, ultimately. THIS scene, however, totally stripped that luxury away...there was no supernatual manipulation to blame, no argument leading up to it...just the opposite, in that things were finally looking up for the boys and they were in it together! So there we had it - apparently, not only has Dean NOT truly forgiven Sam for Ruby and unwittingly freeing Lucifer, but worse...HE ACTUALLY BLAMES SAM FOR COMING BACK SOULLESS. WHAT. THE. &%#@?!?!?!?! HOW, HOW is that in ANY way, shape, or form SAM'S fault?!?!?! It doesn't even compute, and this not at all from a Sam-fan's standpoint but from a COMMON SENSE one!!!!!!! HELLO, DEAN, Sam was too busy BEING TOTURED BY TWO ARCHANGELS to have any control of how the freaking heck Castiel brought him back at the time...you wanna blame anyone then blame your precious angel why dont you!!!!! But no, that would be stupid, b/c Castiel was taking on anything but an easy task and did his best and was a true friend for even trying in the first place, right?! Right, sooo...please tell me AGAIN how it makes any sense whatsoever on such grounds to blame Sam for not being brought back intact?? Oh wait, that's right...you CAN'T, b/c it makes NO sense. So instead you just throw out that entirely baseless accusation just to add to the pot and make Sam feel that much lower. Good on you. I could get the remaining soreness over 'Sam not looking', I HATE but can ultimately tho grudgingly get past continued non-forgiveness over Ruby (tho I was honestly surprised with that tirade that Stanford wasn't thrown in too)...but I'm just plain appalled at the 'it's your fault you came back soulless' idiocy. And the little shot of humor about 'the girl in 6th grade' did absolutely BUPKISS to soothe that gaping wound. I couldn't even crack a smile at Dean at that point. I'll be totally honest, right then and there I was prepared to give this ep my first ever 'salt-n-burn' vote, and it did NOT help that soon after that we got Dean going off with Castiel, albeit oh-so reluctantly b/c 'if anyone needs a chaperone it's Sam'!! Yeah...before Dean's 'confession suggestions' I would've taken that as a protective big-brotherly comment, as in 'no, Sammy, I'm not leaving you to face this alone, we'll do it together'. But afterwards...I took it exactly how Sam apparently took it. As in 'nope, I'm not leaving you to screw up or go off the rails without me to keep you in line'. I confess that upon that comment I was GLAD Sam said what he said, b/c I wanted Dean to just go away...and I wanted Sam to prove him wrong. And realizing that broke my heart b/c how horrifically far had THAT gone from so looking forward to seeing the boys take down Crowley TOGETHER, as united brothers-in-arms and brothers in ALL ways. So basically the first half of this ep was an awful rollercoaster for me...from taken completely aback, to furious, to just plain depressed and lost of enthusiasm. And not in the good 'awful' type way that season finales are supposed to be. It made me feel like we'd been lied to the whole second half of the season, and that the ep at that point had been written for the anti-Sam faction and the Destiel factions...not for the brother-fans. As if to say, 'hey, we know you folks have been despising the way the second half of the season has been going, especially you Sam-hating lot, and we haven't forgotten or forsaken you...here's your big payoff!' Like their convinction that Carver was planning on culminating the season in a 'major comeuppance for Sam' (that had been previously referred to on a thread here some months back) was actually gonna come true. The only saving grace up to that point, and just beyond it, in the ep had been - ironically enough - the King of Hell! Crowley was being his delightfully wicked self trapped tho he was - his serenading Sam with the song "Changes" cracked me up - and then when he did that whole communication using Sam's blood as his 'telephone' as we've seen from other demons...it was clear he was still trouble with a capital T! I did question, granted, how he was able to do anything 'demon' under that 'demonic lockdown', but in the end just chalked it up to him being the King of Hell and having ways around things. But it was definitely at the same time clear he wasn't as strong as he'd once been, as evidenced by Abaddon's near takedown of him! But then Sam's defeat (tempoary tho it seems to be) of her was cool (or should I say hot, lol), and then I truly found myself riveted by the changes taking place in Crowley...the cure was actually working! I thought the scenes b/t him and Sam in those moments were great, and Mark and Jared both were totally selling them with their performances...they've always had great 'antagonistic chemistry' b/t them I've thought, so to see that antagonism little by little start to disappear was a real 'whoa' moment that they made work. It's something we thought we'd never see...a remorseful, sincere Crowley. WOW! And then came another thing I never thought I'd see...a sincerely emotional, actually HONEST Naomi! When she came down to talk to Castiel and Dean, I found myself believing her simply b/c she'd never acted like that before...and also b/c I found myself thinking that this would be one of the big twists - Naomi turning out to be trustworthy. Amanda Tapping did such a nice job with her portrayal that I was actually not ready to see her go quite yet. And Metatron turning out to be bad, tho it was something that was speculated upon, did surprise me. That said tho, I have to be honest...I'm tired of all the heaven/angel!angst. It's the part of the show that has never sat 100% well with me due to my own beliefs, tho I've always taken it with a grain of salt as 'just a TV show' like it is...but they just keep piling it on and I'm kinda ready for it to let up, if not be over. I had the feeling tho when Metatron was revealed to be bad - and yet another bad angel? *sigh* - that it was only just getting started, and when Castiel's grace was extracted that was sadly and painfully confirmed. Now he's on earth as a mortal...dear goodness did we not see this coming long ago?? <_< So going on the record, then...I'm just fine with Castiel being in every other third ep or so like he is, as the recurring character he is. Have been for a couple or three seasons now. But with this new 'human mortality' development and Misha's upgrade he's all set to be near regular as Sam and Dean...and not even Bobby was ever that. And ARGH there we had yet another scene in which Dean and Castiel are in the presence of 'gay love' (a scene I would've laughed at if not for the possible undertones)...I'm convinced by now the writers are doing that on purpose, and I only hope it's just to TEASE the Destiellers and not out of future plans to APPEASE the Destiellers! But even w/o Destiel (oh PLEASE be withOUT!), if Castiel's in the backseat of the Impala every ep next season - or worse, the passenger seat - just...bleh. Sorry, I like Castiel overall and I like Misha just fine, but the show is SamnDean to me. Not Sam-n-Dean-Cas. Call me a stodgy purist but that's the way it is and always will be. So that said, WHAT. A. RELIEF, one that I can't even put into enough words, with the final scenes of this ep b/t the boys. When Dean reacted like he did to Naomi's truth that Sam would die if he completed the third trial, I was just inwardly BEGGING him to please, PLEASE go back to Sam and SHOW HIM THAT YOU CARE. TAKE BACK the awful sting of those words you said to him earlier and HEAL HIM!!! Mad at Dean as I still was for what he'd said, I was silently beseeching those things of him! For him to TURN IT AROUND!!!! And then there was Sam...that ONE word from him - "So?!" THAT one word, to me, was one of the hardest-hitting moments of the entire show, especially in recent seasons b/c finally, FINALLY, it's out. How much Sam has come to loathe himself, and condemn himself, devalue himself and let his self-worth be eroded away...it's finally OUT. For Dean to see. That's a moment that has been SUCH a long time coming in the show that it literally made me cry with it...seriously, instant teary-eyes. And then when he elaborated to Dean...how his confessional was all about all the times he'd let Dean down, how he truly believed Dean would be better off without him, and that essentially he (Sam) was getting what he deserved...WOW was that one incredibly raw moment that SO NEEDED TO HAPPEN. And Jared's FACE, and his voice...those bruised, exhausted and bloodshot eyes - he could seriously not have played that any better and more powerful. The makeup crew did a phenomenal job on making Jared look at the absolute end of his rope physically, but it was Jared himself who made Sam's brokenness just virtually pour through the screen physically AND emotionally. Only a few lines, but one of the best performances I've ever seen him give...and you know, with how many other awesome ones he's given over the seasons, that that's saying A LOT. And as is the norm, Jensen's performance in turn - as a Dean who finally, finally GETS IT...gets that Sam has practically no self-worth and likely hadn't for quite some time and that HE, however unintentionally and unaware as I fully believe was the case, was a contributing factor to that - was the perfect complement. You could just see Dean come to the realization and hear it in his gutteral, shredded voice how hard that realization hit him. I can't stress enough that this has been coming for SO LONG, and I was half-crying b/c my heart was breaking for the boys and half b/c I was so relieved. Could this at LONG LAST be what it takes to get Dean to stop holding all of Sam's mistakes over his head, to finally fully forgive him? Oh how I hope so. Really what more should he need? Clearly Sam had felt for quite some time he was nothing but a burden and disappointment to Dean, holds himself responsible for that and his own mistakes, and was ready to end it. That wasn't a cry for help...that wasn't Sam not being able to take criticism...that wasn't even a crazy-Sam harrassed to the brink by Lucifer! That was a Sam who had scarred so deep, with real, HUMAN scars, and for so long without letting it show, that he had finally come to that point. The point that, quite frankly, fans of his character were convinced he'd been nearing for years! Right? And in turn...that was a Dean who, like I said, finally GOT IT. And said all he knew to say to start the healing process. Do I think he said ALL the right words? No...but who would in such a point of profound realization and desperation to fix it? I would've liked for Dean to have restored Sam's view of himself as a brother, to have called Sam's attention away from his mistakes and instead shift it to all of Sam's strengths and goodness, both as a person and a brother. To say that while yes, he has made some mistakes, they pale in comparison to all he's done RIGHT as a person and brother. All the guilt Sam has, all the times he's had mistakes shoved in his face, not been given the benefit of the doubt, been reminded of his shortcomings, and kept all that hurt bottled inside...oh what wonders such positive words like those could do for him if he could just hear them! But as far as Dean goes, the realization that Sam was that broken followed by the realization that whatever happened in the next minute would probably mean the difference b/t Sam's life and death...well, that was probably such an emotional one-two punch whiplash that yeah, who would know ALL the right words to say? The essential point is that right words WOULD be said...and that point Dean did deliver on. To hear the conviction and intensity in his voice as he told Sam that he'd let every evil thing 'like the one that killed their mom' walk the earth as long as it meant keeping Sam with him, that there's no one he'd rather have by his side...WOW. That did my heart such an insane amount of good that I HAVE to watch that scene again. Again and again. Partially b/c I was so intensely digesting many of Dean's words that I missed some of the next words he said, lol...and when it comes to a scene like that I don't want to miss a thing! But also simply b/c that scene was such HEALING. And that said, tho I still hated Dean's remarks in the first half of the ep...I get WHY they happened - to lead up to that point. And I get now that instead of pulling the rug out from underneath brother-fans/Sam-fans, it was only the rug of the Sam-hating lot that was ultimately destined to pulled out by that brotherly-love-filled end scene...and so soon after said rug had been put there, too, so... in the end to the Sam-haters!!! I've no doubt that they're so boiling mad right now it's frying (what's there) of their brains!!! And that serves them right for wanting what's worst for the heart-and-soul of this show, the brother-bond of SamnDean. Long live that, and forever screw the haters!!!!!! So...WHEW. Re-watch tomorrow, and then maybe a rating. But it was definitely an ep full of ups and downs, one that thankfully ended on an EPIC 'up' b/t the boys after and in remedy of a huge 'down' b/t them. Of course, also an ep that ended with many questions, like...are the angels falling to earth or to Hell? Is Crowley too far cured to turn back to evil or will the cure's incompletion render it void? When will Abaddon be back? What is Metatron's ultimate goal? Does Kevin (YAY HE LIVED!!!!!!!!!!!) still have work to do as a prophet? Has Castiel been memory-wiped or is he aware of what's going on (I think the latter)? IS JODY STILL ALIVE (she'd better be!)??? And... Is Sam done with the effects of the trials? Or, since he willingly quit before the big finish, will he remain sick - as his sudden near-collapse after they thought it was all over hinted at - and 'unpurified'? Not to mention why was it that only Naomi and Metatron (with one revealing the truth and one never planning to) knew that, in the end, the trials would end with Sam's self-sacrifice? Was that something they as angels had foreseen, that hadn't been written on the tablet...or just something that Kevin wasn't able to translate? Guess it doesn't really matter now...just curious. But the first question about Sam is DEFINITELY pertinent into next season. Sooooo...I suppose that's that. Till tomorrow for possibly more on the ep, and looking foward to reading what y'all thought about it. Aaaaand... TILL THIS FALL AND S9 FOR OUR BOYS!!!!!!!!!! :wacko: |
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| tammitam | May 18 2013, 07:07 AM Post #5 |
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Out of the Fire and Back in the Frying Pan
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I gave this one an awesome, mainly because the small things I didn't like were far outweighed by what I did. Sam was just all kinds of awesome in this. From beginning to end I adored him and everything about him. From his assuring Dean that he could do it, to his determination when it was obvious he was in pain the entire time ... to defeating Abaddon even though she tossed him through a window. His "So..." was heartbreaking, and hopefully gave those Sam haters something to think about. Probably not, but one can wish! I didn't even mind Dean asking what he was going to ask to be redeemed for, mainly because it wasn't said maliciously, it was just said in that matter-of-fact Dean way. So no, I didn't get offended even if Sam deflated, because honestly, they're brothers, and that's what siblings do. And for whatever Dean did wrong, he righted by telling Sam it was always him he put first. Made my heart soar! Crowley was just all kinds of awesome! But then again, when isn't Crowley awesome? I loved that he called Dean Squirrel to Sam's Moose. And loved when he started acting human ... it was amusing to see and gave a whole other side to the acting of Crowley! Poor Jody, worst internet date ever!!! Cas was ok ... though I still hate the angel SL. Even when Naomi tried redeeming herself I didn't like her. I was sort of happy to see all of them fall. But that means, since Metatraon took Castiel's essence that he is now human. And other than the fact that we now have to deal with human Cas ... (and maybe Sam dying after all!) and a bunch of angels stuck on earth ... which means next season will be angel heavy! I rated this episode awesome.
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| Scifidiva | May 29 2013, 12:09 AM Post #6 |
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You're Invited Too, Grumpy!
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I'm dropping in as a preamble to a longer post in progress that I voted "Awesome" as well even though parts of the ep irritated me. |
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This is it, the S8 finale. Some people loved much of it, others disliked it, and most are hoping that it will wow us and make us dismiss (or less likely, celebrate, if the season's intentionally been "AU") the drastic changes to both boys' characterizations thru 8.09 and the apparent canon mistakes throughout the season.



I rated this episode awesome.
9:16 AM Jul 11