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2012 season; 2012 silly season
Topic Started: Sep 20 2011, 11:23 AM (197,272 Views)
westie
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tc6_11
Dec 16 2011, 05:55 PM
Highlander
Dec 16 2011, 03:39 PM
Lecky
Dec 15 2011, 09:45 PM
Third Grade unfortunately is a drain on all clubs that have limited drawing areas and cant fied sides in firsts, resrves and thirds. Most young blokes these days if given the easy option of playing a game of footy having a beer with their mates and not really having to train all that hard will take it. Combine this with playing most games on a saturday and it becomes a real problem to retain reserve grade players. The group needs to address this issue or sooner or later they will have a more popular 3rd grade comp than 1st grade.
But in saying that Lecky it keeps some clubs alive!!

WE only play on Satday as we have no choice ATM (AFL) But if all goes(EVERYONE FINGERS CROSSED) well that may soon be resolved!!!

Since 2002 Moss vale, Mittagong,the Oaks,Narellan and soon Appin will be clubs that have been in 3rd grade that are now strong 1st grade clubs!!! So there is merit

i hope we are one of those in a few years time aswell!!
The concept has some merit.
It only takes a couple of lean years, and clubs really start finding it hard. I remember Mittagong and moss vale being the whipping boys, it was almost a guaranteed 2 points, but they got their gear in order, and sometimes it takes a step backward to be able to go forward.
There's no excuse for some clubs though. They are just poorly run, and will forever be 3rd grade until their board changes.
I totally agree 100 percent if a club has a hard working committe and a good vision to strive for success then they will and can achieve fielding competitive sides in all grades and from what I see alot of third grade clubs in the group have the facilities ie fenced in grounds support of the town all they need to do is find sponsors hold on to them and attract players some third grade clubs have it seems third grade committee members and are happy just getting by in low divisions I really only see the new Boys mac bulls progress to 1st grade by 2013 out of the current croP of thirds for 2012 hearing good things on those boys they seem to be growing rapidly
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Black&White
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What's important is that our Group offers a game to those that want to play, whether it's 1st grade, reggies, 3rd grade or U/18's. We need committed players, dedicated, well disciplined clubs and a good management that listens to the needs of the clubs they represent.
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Fence sitter
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Black&White
Dec 16 2011, 07:19 PM
Highlander
Dec 16 2011, 06:05 PM
Very true T.C

But we should take some heart knowing we have a 3rd grade comp to play in and the premier competition is not weaker for it!! alot of clubs in other groups have folded in the last few years we should take heart that were growing as a competition!!

I was in the HMAS Albatross Rugby league clubhouse today and saw 30 years of history sitting in a corner collecting dust and was really sadderned knowing that the ground is going to be destroyed and all the photos and history lost!!
That's a terrible pity for that club.

It's a sad fact of life but as the old guard in a club moves one and new committees take over, a lot of history is lost. The stories behind pertpetual & memorial trophies often get forgotten in the changes, the honour rolls of life members become meaningless because no one knows the stories behind them. Often a club's history is passed on by word of mouth rather than written down and it eventually gets lost. We probably need to make an effort to write it down.

Many years ago there was a book (booklet) about the history of Group 6 Rugby League (I have a copy in the house somewhere :unsure: ). I wonder if there is the possibility of getting it updated and reprinted?
My dad has that book, it has a gold and brown cover and he said he bought it at a Group 6 Grand Final many years ago, great history written and recorded, whom ever gets the privallidge to up date that book now, I'm sure there would be a chapter or two about the seperation and dealings with Wests Juniors, the good thing will be the awesome comeback of the Kangaroos to there home in Group 6, someone could start it now and have it ready for the 2012 Grand Final. Dad also asked me to mention Daine Wooden from Narellan, they say he is in talks with coaching Thirlmere for 2012, won't that throw a spanner in the works for Narellan, does anyone know about the Oaks signing Damien Mostyn? And Narellan signing Michael Stolk, And Oakdale signing Stuart Flannigan, And City signing Falenuu Akeripa, And the Eagles signing Ben Weir, and Camden signing Neil Begovitch, And Appin signing Nadel Salor, A lot of signings and will make for an interesting season, does anyone also know if Toa Asa is back at the Oaks, they lost Apolo Toilo to Cabramatta, And the big one, over 30 players signing from ESA to MacArthur Bulls, just shows players are once again heading to a competition that they can enjoy playing Rugby League week in week out
Edited by Fence sitter, Dec 16 2011, 11:24 PM.
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westie
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Gee dads in the know his across it all isn't he
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foal
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Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
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disco stu
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foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
Picton could be in a similar situation to moss vale, with bundanoon hoping to field a 3rd grade side numbers could be tight, also not many u18 coming up as most of this years side having one more year in 18s. Yet its still all hypothetical at this stage. I understand mossy have organised a trial next year with former group 6 club goulburn tbc. Willy McDonald is once again capt coach for first grade but has indicated it could be his last year here as he will be heading back to new Zealand, club stalwart Pete mcguinness will be coaching u/ 18s side and reggies coach is yet to be finalized.
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Black&White
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foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
That's the issue though "purely for numbers" or cannon fodder to be used until someone better comes along, someone's mate wants to play or some "star" from another club thinks that they'll sign up. Then the "cannon fodder" gets less and less game time until they don't get a run at all. They don't bother to come to training because "what's the point", they're not getting any game time anyway. They get labelled disloyal, unreliable, lazy - especially when the "stars" are injuried or decide that the team isn't going to be as successful as they thought and they drift off to greener pastures. If a club expects loyalty then they should give loyalty to their players not just the "mate's club". Club players will stick with a club through thick or thin if treated properly - I'm not talking about payment hear I'm talking about some reciprical loyalty.

Instead of trying to buy success clubs should be developing what they've got. There are some good young players stepping up into Picton's 18's next year (just as there has been in past years), Bevo, Willie & Fago did an excellent job with them in the 16's this season - let's see if Picton can keep their interest and loyalty. In 2007 Picton's 18's had a very successful season and won the Grand Final - where have they gone? If some of this season's crop of 18's bail on the club and join Bargo maybe it's because they feel it's their only chance of a game. Maybe someone should tell them that the club actually wants them and not just as bench warmers until something better comes along. Yes, there are players that just don't care but plenty of others want to play for their club but get pushed aside because they're not part of the inner circle.
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tc6_11
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foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
Is this the same reason your club has been offering our first graders lots of cash?
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disco stu
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Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
Interesting that bargo already has a sportingpulse website which I noticed on the group 6 website, seems like its going to happen, wonder how clubs will vote come affiliation time.
Edited by disco stu, Dec 19 2011, 02:46 PM.
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Black&White
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disco stu
Dec 19 2011, 02:45 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
Interesting that bargo already has a sportingpulse website which I noticed on the group 6 website, seems like its going to happen, wonder how clubs will vote come affiliation time.
That's interesting.....

Isn't Group jumping the gun with this? Bargo isn't affiliated with Group 6 at the moment - surely this has to go to the General Committee before they become an official Group 6 club?

I hope that the involvement of a member of the Group Executive and his wife in the proposed Bargo club doesn't mean that they don't have to go through the proper process.
Edited by Black&White, Dec 19 2011, 07:41 PM.
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lovinfooty
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Fence sitter
Dec 16 2011, 11:19 PM
Black&White
Dec 16 2011, 07:19 PM
Highlander
Dec 16 2011, 06:05 PM
Very true T.C

But we should take some heart knowing we have a 3rd grade comp to play in and the premier competition is not weaker for it!! alot of clubs in other groups have folded in the last few years we should take heart that were growing as a competition!!

I was in the HMAS Albatross Rugby league clubhouse today and saw 30 years of history sitting in a corner collecting dust and was really sadderned knowing that the ground is going to be destroyed and all the photos and history lost!!
That's a terrible pity for that club.

It's a sad fact of life but as the old guard in a club moves one and new committees take over, a lot of history is lost. The stories behind pertpetual & memorial trophies often get forgotten in the changes, the honour rolls of life members become meaningless because no one knows the stories behind them. Often a club's history is passed on by word of mouth rather than written down and it eventually gets lost. We probably need to make an effort to write it down.

Many years ago there was a book (booklet) about the history of Group 6 Rugby League (I have a copy in the house somewhere :unsure: ). I wonder if there is the possibility of getting it updated and reprinted?
My dad has that book, it has a gold and brown cover and he said he bought it at a Group 6 Grand Final many years ago, great history written and recorded, whom ever gets the privallidge to up date that book now, I'm sure there would be a chapter or two about the seperation and dealings with Wests Juniors, the good thing will be the awesome comeback of the Kangaroos to there home in Group 6, someone could start it now and have it ready for the 2012 Grand Final. Dad also asked me to mention Daine Wooden from Narellan, they say he is in talks with coaching Thirlmere for 2012, won't that throw a spanner in the works for Narellan, does anyone know about the Oaks signing Damien Mostyn? And Narellan signing Michael Stolk, And Oakdale signing Stuart Flannigan, And City signing Falenuu Akeripa, And the Eagles signing Ben Weir, and Camden signing Neil Begovitch, And Appin signing Nadel Salor, A lot of signings and will make for an interesting season, does anyone also know if Toa Asa is back at the Oaks, they lost Apolo Toilo to Cabramatta, And the big one, over 30 players signing from ESA to MacArthur Bulls, just shows players are once again heading to a competition that they can enjoy playing Rugby League week in week out
Is any of these signings Woodo, Mostyn, Begovich confirmed or are they just heresay? I have been asking for people to post confirmed signings for ages!!!

Woodo is signed to coachNarellan next year asfar as I know.
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foal
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Black&White
Dec 18 2011, 12:53 PM
foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
That's the issue though "purely for numbers" or cannon fodder to be used until someone better comes along, someone's mate wants to play or some "star" from another club thinks that they'll sign up. Then the "cannon fodder" gets less and less game time until they don't get a run at all. They don't bother to come to training because "what's the point", they're not getting any game time anyway. They get labelled disloyal, unreliable, lazy - especially when the "stars" are injuried or decide that the team isn't going to be as successful as they thought and they drift off to greener pastures. If a club expects loyalty then they should give loyalty to their players not just the "mate's club". Club players will stick with a club through thick or thin if treated properly - I'm not talking about payment hear I'm talking about some reciprical loyalty.

Instead of trying to buy success clubs should be developing what they've got. There are some good young players stepping up into Picton's 18's next year (just as there has been in past years), Bevo, Willie & Fago did an excellent job with them in the 16's this season - let's see if Picton can keep their interest and loyalty. In 2007 Picton's 18's had a very successful season and won the Grand Final - where have they gone? If some of this season's crop of 18's bail on the club and join Bargo maybe it's because they feel it's their only chance of a game. Maybe someone should tell them that the club actually wants them and not just as bench warmers until something better comes along. Yes, there are players that just don't care but plenty of others want to play for their club but get pushed aside because they're not part of the inner circle.
***Attention moderators!! You may want to start a Picton Magpies dedicated thread!! I may drift off into a long-winded rant here!!***


"Cannon Fodder"?? "Mate's club"?? "Inner circle"??

Who ARE you? And where are your conspiracy theories coming from??

First of all, my 'purely for numbers' comment was just an answer to your question as to 'why the club would want these players that are not committed to making an effort or turning up to training'. I have never referred to, or even thought of, any Picton player as anything resembling what you're describing there. My point was simply that given the choice of having either a squad of uncommitted, lazy players filling reserve grade, or having only enough players to field one team, I would still prefer to have the non-dedicated players hang around.

Second of all, considering you're a Picton person, I don't know where you're getting some of your ideas from. You've described us above as some sort of big spending, player importing club that ignores our juniors.
As someone who has been involved with the seniors since 1995, I can honestly say we are about as far from that as there is around.

"Buy success"?? Are you serious??
Let's just focus on recent years:

2005: 1st grade premiers. A team of almost all local juniors, except 3. Of those 3, 1 came because he went through school with some of our guys, 1 moved to Picton that year and had previously played with our (home grown) captain-coach in Wollongong, and 1 started at the club as a 21 year old in 1997, retired some years later, and made a come back in 05 to lose some of the 30kgs he had gained in the years between.

2006: Grand finalists in 1st and reserve grades. Pretty much the same squads as the previous year except for 2 quality young players (Jeremy Mackay and Heath Browne) that came to us from Eaglevale because they had no interest in playing in the Wests comp.

2007 and 2008: Lost a bunch of local talent to retirement, Cartlon league, Bundy cup, and moving interstate. No surprise that those were 2 of our less successful years in the top grades. However, as you pointed out, they were 2 very good years for our 18s who had some special players come through in that time. This leads me to....

2009: The emergence of some brilliant, local, developed at home, former under 18s, in addition to the return of some of our best home grown talent saw us return to our former glory. 1st grade premiers, with a squad of almost all local juniors, this time except for 4: but not one player that we actually poached, and not one in their 1st year at the club. We also had an outstanding reserve grade, if it were not for stinking, bloody Green Valley being allowed to play in 2nds that year we would've finished the regular season undefeated and played the Eagles in the GF.
As captain-coach of reggies that year I used a total of 41 players! Of those, about 28 were regular members of the reserve grade squad. Of those, not one was considered 'Cannon Fodder'. Do you have any idea how stressful it is trying to ensure that each player gets enough footy? Not one player played each game. All were rested at some stage to give others a rest. You can only use 19 each week. Do the math. 15 reserves and only 6 can get a run. It is absolutely impossible to maintain everyone's "interest and loyalty".
Since you questioned where all of the 2007 under 18s are now, I can tell you that 14 of them played at least one game for me that year. 2 of those played almost the whole year in 1st grade. Another 2 played regular 1st grade. Probably another 4 or 5 played some 1st grade. 2 quit during the year because they were unhappy with the amount of game time they were getting. An unfortunate and unavoidable bi-product of having so many quality players.
Forgive me if I'm coming across as extra defensive, but frankly, I am. I am fully aware of some of the bitching that was done by parents of some players about me that year. In fact I overheard plenty (it's amazing how indisceet some people are). I am still blown away that as a coach of a SENIOR team I had to put up with the rubbish of parents of players bitching and whining. It taught me one thing: I will NEVER coach a juniour team! Since you mentioned this years 16s, maybe you should speak to Bowers, Willie, and Fago about the experience. I have. At length. And I'm confident they will NEVER coach another junior team either.

2010 and 2011: Our fortunes here are well documented. Great results (without a premiership) in 1st grade and a sad fall from grace for our reserve grade. But, let's continue along the development of local talent path, and focus on the fortunes of our 18s from '07. In '10 and '11 another 3 players from that 18s squad, who were with me in reserve grade in '09, have made the step up to being permanent 1st graders. Throw in another 2 that were already there, and another half dozen or so that have played 1st grade for us in the past 2 seasons and a handful who have stayed in reggies and I think we are doing pretty darn well at developing our own locals. I'd be interested to see if any other club in the group can boast so many players from the one 18s team that've come through. It is EXTREMELY rare. I can tell you from personal experience. I know there were 4 of us that continued after 18s in my day. Of those only 2 of us played more than one year. That's not the exception. That's pretty much the norm.
As someone who has been a member of this mythical 'inner circle' I can assure you that I've not seen any player overlooked because of who they are or are not mates with. It's been a pretty consistent and fair selection process for both grades in recent years. At least, no worse than any other time that I've seen.
And, as for buying success, who has Picton bought in the last 2 seasons?? Chris Young, yeah sure. Probably the best buy we've had since the late 90's. But, even he would never have come to the club if it were not for the friends he already had here. I guarantee he could've got a lot more elsewhere, and still could next year. I hope like nothing else that he returns.

If there are players from this years 18s that don't think it's possible to get a run at Picton next year, they obviously didn't watch reserve grade this year. In fact, that's definitely it. They barely stayed long enough for the opening hooter, which is no surprise since they often didn't turn up for their own games. Except for a handful of notable exceptions who had great attitudes, I've never seen an 18s at Picton that cared less about their team mates or the club they represented. But you know what? I'd still gladly have them all back if it means we can field 2 senior teams comfortably.

You speak as though it's the clubs job to inspire our players. Well, who? Who is this 'someone' that is supposed to let ALL players know that they're wanted?? The coaches? The President? A senior player? The whole committee?

It's the clubs job to provide an opportunity to anyone that is able and willing to play footy. What the player does with it is up to them. I'd like to think that each player would want to repay the club for that opportunity by committing for a whole year. That's the type of players I want to see at our club next year. But, I'll take what I can get.



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foal
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tc6_11
Dec 18 2011, 01:45 PM
foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
Is this the same reason your club has been offering our first graders lots of cash?
News to me Tommy.
If that's the case it hasn't been any official offer, just talk. Probably from people doing it off their own bat, not in any official role. I can tell you, with some authority, that we haven't had any official talks with any players yet. In saying that, there's a few quality Workers I wouldn't mind getting a hold of!!
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tc6_11
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foal
Dec 19 2011, 09:43 PM
tc6_11
Dec 18 2011, 01:45 PM
foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
Is this the same reason your club has been offering our first graders lots of cash?
News to me Tommy.
If that's the case it hasn't been any official offer, just talk. Probably from people doing it off their own bat, not in any official role. I can tell you, with some authority, that we haven't had any official talks with any players yet. In saying that, there's a few quality Workers I wouldn't mind getting a hold of!!
It was light hearted Frenchman
That's a 2 way street, there's a couple of magpies in like to have in black and red
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Black&White
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foal
Dec 19 2011, 09:36 PM
Black&White
Dec 18 2011, 12:53 PM
foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
That's the issue though "purely for numbers" or cannon fodder to be used until someone better comes along, someone's mate wants to play or some "star" from another club thinks that they'll sign up. Then the "cannon fodder" gets less and less game time until they don't get a run at all. They don't bother to come to training because "what's the point", they're not getting any game time anyway. They get labelled disloyal, unreliable, lazy - especially when the "stars" are injuried or decide that the team isn't going to be as successful as they thought and they drift off to greener pastures. If a club expects loyalty then they should give loyalty to their players not just the "mate's club". Club players will stick with a club through thick or thin if treated properly - I'm not talking about payment hear I'm talking about some reciprical loyalty.

Instead of trying to buy success clubs should be developing what they've got. There are some good young players stepping up into Picton's 18's next year (just as there has been in past years), Bevo, Willie & Fago did an excellent job with them in the 16's this season - let's see if Picton can keep their interest and loyalty. In 2007 Picton's 18's had a very successful season and won the Grand Final - where have they gone? If some of this season's crop of 18's bail on the club and join Bargo maybe it's because they feel it's their only chance of a game. Maybe someone should tell them that the club actually wants them and not just as bench warmers until something better comes along. Yes, there are players that just don't care but plenty of others want to play for their club but get pushed aside because they're not part of the inner circle.
***Attention moderators!! You may want to start a Picton Magpies dedicated thread!! I may drift off into a long-winded rant here!!***


"Cannon Fodder"?? "Mate's club"?? "Inner circle"??

Who ARE you? And where are your conspiracy theories coming from??

First of all, my 'purely for numbers' comment was just an answer to your question as to 'why the club would want these players that are not committed to making an effort or turning up to training'. I have never referred to, or even thought of, any Picton player as anything resembling what you're describing there. My point was simply that given the choice of having either a squad of uncommitted, lazy players filling reserve grade, or having only enough players to field one team, I would still prefer to have the non-dedicated players hang around.

Second of all, considering you're a Picton person, I don't know where you're getting some of your ideas from. You've described us above as some sort of big spending, player importing club that ignores our juniors.
As someone who has been involved with the seniors since 1995, I can honestly say we are about as far from that as there is around.

"Buy success"?? Are you serious??
Let's just focus on recent years:

2005: 1st grade premiers. A team of almost all local juniors, except 3. Of those 3, 1 came because he went through school with some of our guys, 1 moved to Picton that year and had previously played with our (home grown) captain-coach in Wollongong, and 1 started at the club as a 21 year old in 1997, retired some years later, and made a come back in 05 to lose some of the 30kgs he had gained in the years between.

2006: Grand finalists in 1st and reserve grades. Pretty much the same squads as the previous year except for 2 quality young players (Jeremy Mackay and Heath Browne) that came to us from Eaglevale because they had no interest in playing in the Wests comp.

2007 and 2008: Lost a bunch of local talent to retirement, Cartlon league, Bundy cup, and moving interstate. No surprise that those were 2 of our less successful years in the top grades. However, as you pointed out, they were 2 very good years for our 18s who had some special players come through in that time. This leads me to....

2009: The emergence of some brilliant, local, developed at home, former under 18s, in addition to the return of some of our best home grown talent saw us return to our former glory. 1st grade premiers, with a squad of almost all local juniors, this time except for 4: but not one player that we actually poached, and not one in their 1st year at the club. We also had an outstanding reserve grade, if it were not for stinking, bloody Green Valley being allowed to play in 2nds that year we would've finished the regular season undefeated and played the Eagles in the GF.
As captain-coach of reggies that year I used a total of 41 players! Of those, about 28 were regular members of the reserve grade squad. Of those, not one was considered 'Cannon Fodder'. Do you have any idea how stressful it is trying to ensure that each player gets enough footy? Not one player played each game. All were rested at some stage to give others a rest. You can only use 19 each week. Do the math. 15 reserves and only 6 can get a run. It is absolutely impossible to maintain everyone's "interest and loyalty".
Since you questioned where all of the 2007 under 18s are now, I can tell you that 14 of them played at least one game for me that year. 2 of those played almost the whole year in 1st grade. Another 2 played regular 1st grade. Probably another 4 or 5 played some 1st grade. 2 quit during the year because they were unhappy with the amount of game time they were getting. An unfortunate and unavoidable bi-product of having so many quality players.
Forgive me if I'm coming across as extra defensive, but frankly, I am. I am fully aware of some of the bitching that was done by parents of some players about me that year. In fact I overheard plenty (it's amazing how indisceet some people are). I am still blown away that as a coach of a SENIOR team I had to put up with the rubbish of parents of players bitching and whining. It taught me one thing: I will NEVER coach a juniour team! Since you mentioned this years 16s, maybe you should speak to Bowers, Willie, and Fago about the experience. I have. At length. And I'm confident they will NEVER coach another junior team either.

2010 and 2011: Our fortunes here are well documented. Great results (without a premiership) in 1st grade and a sad fall from grace for our reserve grade. But, let's continue along the development of local talent path, and focus on the fortunes of our 18s from '07. In '10 and '11 another 3 players from that 18s squad, who were with me in reserve grade in '09, have made the step up to being permanent 1st graders. Throw in another 2 that were already there, and another half dozen or so that have played 1st grade for us in the past 2 seasons and a handful who have stayed in reggies and I think we are doing pretty darn well at developing our own locals. I'd be interested to see if any other club in the group can boast so many players from the one 18s team that've come through. It is EXTREMELY rare. I can tell you from personal experience. I know there were 4 of us that continued after 18s in my day. Of those only 2 of us played more than one year. That's not the exception. That's pretty much the norm.
As someone who has been a member of this mythical 'inner circle' I can assure you that I've not seen any player overlooked because of who they are or are not mates with. It's been a pretty consistent and fair selection process for both grades in recent years. At least, no worse than any other time that I've seen.
And, as for buying success, who has Picton bought in the last 2 seasons?? Chris Young, yeah sure. Probably the best buy we've had since the late 90's. But, even he would never have come to the club if it were not for the friends he already had here. I guarantee he could've got a lot more elsewhere, and still could next year. I hope like nothing else that he returns.

If there are players from this years 18s that don't think it's possible to get a run at Picton next year, they obviously didn't watch reserve grade this year. In fact, that's definitely it. They barely stayed long enough for the opening hooter, which is no surprise since they often didn't turn up for their own games. Except for a handful of notable exceptions who had great attitudes, I've never seen an 18s at Picton that cared less about their team mates or the club they represented. But you know what? I'd still gladly have them all back if it means we can field 2 senior teams comfortably.

You speak as though it's the clubs job to inspire our players. Well, who? Who is this 'someone' that is supposed to let ALL players know that they're wanted?? The coaches? The President? A senior player? The whole committee?

It's the clubs job to provide an opportunity to anyone that is able and willing to play footy. What the player does with it is up to them. I'd like to think that each player would want to repay the club for that opportunity by committing for a whole year. That's the type of players I want to see at our club next year. But, I'll take what I can get.



Hit a nerve did I foal?
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Blue Devil
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I think we need a page just for Picton, that was like reading a noval from Stephen King!

Campbelltown Eagles will be having a Christmas BBQ tonight at Waminda Oval 6pm, all welcome!
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disco stu
Dec 18 2011, 11:06 AM
foal
Dec 17 2011, 10:09 PM
Black&White
Dec 15 2011, 10:21 PM
It's a good idea that there is a game available to those that want to play. Not every player has the ability or desire to play grade and a 3rd grade will give them the opportunity to still play footy each weekend. It will be up to the Group to ensure that the point's system is enforced and those playing are genuine 3rd grade players. Foal has said that many of the players looking to have a run at the proposed Bargo club are those players who aren't committed to making an effort or turning up to training, if this is the case, then why would first grade and reggie teams want them.

Let's also remember that this "club" is not affiliated with group 6 at the moment, the issue has to go to a General Meeting, which propbably won't be held until the end of February.
I'll tell you why the club would still want those players. Purely for numbers.
Seriously, I have some very grave fears about our reserve grade next year. This year due to a combination of injuries and people quitting half way through we finished with about 12 players and retired blokes like myself had to make comebacks. If we have half a dozen players from this years squad go to Bargo and do not get a bunch of 18s from this year coming through we will be well and truly stuffed. Where will we get the extra numbers from??
I really hope my fears prove to be baseless.
Picton could be in a similar situation to moss vale, with bundanoon hoping to field a 3rd grade side numbers could be tight, also not many u18 coming up as most of this years side having one more year in 18s. Yet its still all hypothetical at this stage. I understand mossy have organised a trial next year with former group 6 club goulburn tbc. Willy McDonald is once again capt coach for first grade but has indicated it could be his last year here as he will be heading back to new Zealand, club stalwart Pete mcguinness will be coaching u/ 18s side and reggies coach is yet to be finalized.
There is only one way around that and that is for Picton and Moss Vale to have their own 3rd Grade team, give the novice footballer a place to play at, and it gives those players who may miss out at the start of the year a game until they get a shot at Reserve Grade, the saying is, “if you build it they will come”
But if these teams can be managed right it will be great for Bargo, Bundanoon and little towns alike, remember Campbelltown back in the Group 6 days where like this, they had City, Warriors and Collies as your 1st Grade clubs in Group 6, and then you had the likes of Campbelltown Sharks, Leumeah Wolves and Ingleburn Bulldogs as your 2nd Division Clubs. The same thing should of happened when Group 6 and Wests merged, you needed 1st Grade Clubs , 2nd Division clubs and then some clubs that shouldn’t have seniors at all!
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westie
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Blue Devil
Dec 20 2011, 08:45 AM
I think we need a page just for Picton, that was like reading a noval from Stephen King!

Campbelltown Eagles will be having a Christmas BBQ tonight at Waminda Oval 6pm, all welcome!
Hope you don't get stung for breaching the train play rule BD I hear the rule will be enforced on post match functions also in 2012 you have to drink at a pub within group 6 boundaries lol time to abolish this stupid rule bring on the rally can't wait
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How good is this, the draw is out and only 96 more sleeps.

25-Mar Round 1 Home Away
Bye v Appin
Kangaroos v Eagles
Mittagong v Moss Vale
Narellan v Camden
Oakdale v The Oaks
Thirlmere v Picton

1-Apr Round 2 Home Away
Eagles v Bye
Moss Vale v Appin
Camden v Kangaroos
The Oaks v Mittagong
Picton v Narellan
Thirlmere v Oakdale

8-Apr Easter

15-Apr Round 3 Home Away
Bye v Moss Vale
Camden v Eagles
Appin v The Oaks
Kangaroos v Picton
Mittagong v Thirlmere
Narellan v Oakdale

22-Apr Round 4 Home Away
Camden v Bye
Moss Vale v The Oaks
Picton v Eagles
Thirlmere v Appin
Oakdale v Kangaroos
Narellan v Mittagong

28-Apr Round 5 Home Away
Bye v The Oaks
Camden v Picton
Moss Vale v Thirlmere
Eagles v Oakdale
Appin v Narellan
Mittagong v Kangaroos

6-May Round 6 Home Away
Picton v Bye
Thirlmere v The Oaks
Oakdale v Camden
Narellan v Moss Vale
Mittagong v Eagles
Kangaroos v Appin

13-May Round 7 Home Away
Bye v Thirlmere
Picton v Oakdale
The Oaks v Narellan
Camden v Mittagong
Moss Vale v Kangaroos
Eagles v Appin
20-May Round 8 Home Away
Oakdale v Bye
Narellan v Thirlmere
Mittagong v Picton
Kangaroos v The Oaks
Camden v Appin
Moss Vale v Eagles

27-May Spare Weekend Country Rep's

3-Jun Round 9 Home Away
Bye v Narellan
Oakdale v Mittagong
Thirlmere v Kangaroos
Picton v Appin
The Oaks v Eagles
Camden v Moss Vale

10-Jun Long Weekend

17-Jun Round 10 Home Away
Mittagong v Bye
Narellan v Kangaroos
Appin v Oakdale
Eagles v Thirlmere
Moss Vale v Picton
The Oaks v Camden

24-Jun Round 11 Home Away
Bye v Kangaroos
Appin v Mittagong
Eagles v Narellan
Oakdale v Moss Vale
Thirlmere v Camden
Picton v The Oaks

1-Jul Round 12 Home Away
Appin v Bye
Eagles v Kangaroos
Moss Vale v Mittagong
Camden v Narellan
The Oaks v Oakdale
Picton v Thirlmere

8-Jul Round 13 Home Away
Bye v Eagles
Appin v Moss Vale
Kangaroos v Camden
Mittagong v The Oaks
Narellan v Picton
Oakdale v Thirlmere

15-Jul Round 14 Home Away
Moss Vale v Bye
Eagles v Camden
The Oaks v Appin
Picton v Kangaroos
Thirlmere v Mittagong
Oakdale v Narellan
22-Jul Round 15 Home Away
Bye v Camden
The Oaks v Moss Vale
Eagles v Picton
Appin v Thirlmere
Kangaroos v Oakdale
Mittagong v Narellan

29-Jul Spare Weekend

5-Aug Round 16 Home Away
The Oaks v Bye
Picton v Camden
Thirlmere v Moss Vale
Oakdale v Eagles
Narellan v Appin
Kangaroos v Mittagong

12-Aug Round 17 Home Away
Bye v Picton
The Oaks v Thirlmere
Camden v Oakdale
Moss Vale v Narellan
Eagles v Mittagong
Appin v Kangaroos

19-Aug Round 18 Home Away
Thirlmere v Bye
Oakdale v Picton
Narellan v The Oaks
Mittagong v Camden
Kangaroos v Moss Vale
Appin v Eagles

26-Aug Finals TBA
2-Sep Finals TBA
9-Sep Finals TBA
16-Sep Grand Final TBA
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westie
Dec 20 2011, 10:33 AM
Blue Devil
Dec 20 2011, 08:45 AM
I think we need a page just for Picton, that was like reading a noval from Stephen King!

Campbelltown Eagles will be having a Christmas BBQ tonight at Waminda Oval 6pm, all welcome!
Hope you don't get stung for breaching the train play rule BD I hear the rule will be enforced on post match functions also in 2012 you have to drink at a pub within group 6 boundaries lol time to abolish this stupid rule bring on the rally can't wait
Don't give them any ideas Westie!
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