Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

WE WANT A FAIR GO FOR OUR AREA, MORE OPPORTUNITIES AND MORE THAN 4 NRL GAMES AT CAMPBELLTOWN STADIUM

Want to talk all things Wests? Click here for our Facebook Page
Add Reply
Last days of mighty Magpies; The Daily Telegraph
Topic Started: Jun 10 2012, 03:27 PM (839 Views)
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
OVER two centuries of heritage will be on the table next week when Balmain and Western Suburbs directors convene for a landmark summit that could evolve their Wests Tigers merger into a new beast.

After 13 years of colourful board room history, the joint venture has arrived at a crossroads with its Magpies NSW Cup team facing the ultimate humiliation of a winless season.

Only given the all-clear to participate in January and without any NRL players, the foundation outfit has lost all 12 games by an average margin of 51 points.

The indignity has heightened moves to overhaul the corporate structure of Wests Tigers, starting with a secondary merger between Balmain and Western Suburbs at NSW Cup level in 2013.

And the changes could go much deeper - pending the open-mindedness of both partners to diminish their enshrined rights in the joint venture agreement.

Until this year's establishment of the independent commission, NRL executives were hamstrung by a compromised entity that required fastidiously equal agreement and input from both sides. Wests Tigers are clubland's answer to the code's previous marriage of necessity between News Limited and the ARL, with CEO Stephen Humphreys believing the "hour is ripe" for a streamlined entity to be created.

"By almost every measure, Wests Tigers has been a tremendously successful joint venture over the past 13 years," Humphreys told The Daily Telegraph. "But the joint venture structure can be a constraint to further growth.

"Generally, joint ventures are created for the two partners to work on a specific project that has a finite life-cycle. Or it's a transitional vehicle to a completely different and single entity.

"The board is now considering whether it's time to evolve from that transitional phase."

At best, the proposal will be a tricky and political sell. At worst, it will revolt diehards who value the independence of Balmain and Wests above the NRL franchise.

For instance, six seasons of false detente and ferocious debate have now passed since the State Cup merger was first mooted.

In 2008 and again last year, it appeared certain a single team would be formed the following season. But staunch elements within the Magpies opted to go it alone on both occasions, despite Wests Tigers coach Tim Sheens warehousing excess NRL players at Balmain for geographical reasons.

On the understanding that 2011 would be the finale, Wests Tigers financially helped the Magpies recruit players to ensure a dignified exit.

The team finished a respectable ninth; only denied a finals spot by a cruel schedule that gave Balmain an extra bye.

Prop Aaron Sweeney, one of the only Magpies to back up this season, confirmed the players thought their swan song was last year.

"We definitely got told there was going to be no team in 2012," Sweeney said.

"That's why all the players and the coach (Leo Epifania) left. If Leo and the other players stayed, we might've had a decent season."

The latest change of heart - accompanied by a public rally in Campbelltown - came far too late for replacement coach Trevor Schodel to assemble a competitive roster. Regrettable results have followed.

This collection of park footballers, NYC rejects, and Bundaberg Cup toilers have been flogged in a season of torture that bears eerie resemblance to the Magpies' final NRL flight in 1999.

SG Ball coach Jason Williams replaced Schodel two weeks ago and at least half a dozen players have walked out, including Sweeney.

"I had a big run-in with the trainer, but he's now gone as well so I came back," Sweeney said. "It was like the training you do with SG Ball. It was like training boys, not men.

"It was a bit all over the shop, a bit rough on the coach (Schodel) to recruit players and all that. The players are doing their best, but they just don't have enough experience."

None of this makes for pleasant reading and it remains to be seen how the Magpies board will respond to finishing on such a bitter note.

Four of the seven Magpies directors - including new chairman Mick Liubinskas - also sit on the board of its primary financier, Wests Leagues Club in Ashfield.

It cost Ashfield more than $1 million in grants to keep the NSW Cup team alive in 2010 and 2011.

Their contribution to Wests Tigers over the same period - as required by the joint venture agreement - was about $350,000.

On top of those commitments, the licensed club also funds the Magpies junior representative teams that are based in Campbelltown.

At Concord, where Wests Tigers administration resides, there is a strong push for the pie to be re-cut to ensure the precious pool of junior talent in Sydney's southwest is correctly nurtured.

"Wests Tigers believe that appropriate money for development and junior pathways should be the priority," Humphreys said.

"One of our greatest resources is the pool of juniors.

"If we invest in that properly there will always be local players representing Wests Tigers."

Something has to give: Balmain and Western Suburbs' stand-alone status would be reduced to the SG Ball level.

Speaking without the jingoism of some of his more militant predecessors, Liubinskas knows the coming months will be intense should a vote be put to his 310 members.

"I've got an open mind about things," he said. "We have to look at all our options to keep the Magpies flying.

"Everything will be on the table very soon."

As soon as this Thursday night.

For the first time in the joint venture's history, the entire Balmain and Magpies boards will gather at Concord to hear the recommendations of a sub-committee and share information.

It could spark a revolution, with Wests Tigers already in negotiations to build a new training facility at Campbelltown and permanently base their NYC team there.

"Similarly, we would see the NRL team and State Cup team having a significant presence in Campbelltown," Humphreys said.

"Everyone has strong opinions and they're normally borne out of historic allegiance. That's understandable.

"From a management point of view, we need to construct our plans to best support our future.

"We also need to respect where we've come from, but it shouldn't constrain everyone from reaching their full potential."

Josh Massoud
The Daily Telegraph
June 09, 2012 12:00AM
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tecee
Member Avatar
NYC U20's
[ *  * ]
Why is it that all the headlines say "Death of the Magpies".

Why not "Death of balmian".

Balmain died years ago, (except for Ryde-Eastwood bailing them out).

Wests were in the comp. in 1908, so was balmain. Not mascots and nicknames

Mascots didn't come in until much later.

I'm dead set fed up.

If the tigers want to follow a nickname, then let them start doing pick and shovel work at their old leagues club site.


As an aside, in 1950, Western Suburbs players helped digging the foundations in Mosman of a facility for handicapped children.

True WESTERN SUBURBS MAGPIES spirit.

Don't forget that, you higher ups from the MAGPIES.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
Come and join me thursday night tecee! Morris the Magpie is keen to make a presence. We can enjoy an quiet ale afterwards at the nearby pub and discuss everything Magpies!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
the_pollie
Member Avatar
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
tecee
Jun 10 2012, 07:43 PM
Why is it that all the headlines say "Death of the Magpies".

Why not "Death of balmian".

Balmain died years ago, (except for Ryde-Eastwood bailing them out).

Wests were in the comp. in 1908, so was balmain. Not mascots and nicknames

Mascots didn't come in until much later.

I'm dead set fed up.

If the tigers want to follow a nickname, then let them start doing pick and shovel work at their old leagues club site.


As an aside, in 1950, Western Suburbs players helped digging the foundations in Mosman of a facility for handicapped children.

True WESTERN SUBURBS MAGPIES spirit.

Don't forget that, you higher ups from the MAGPIES.
I'm actually pleased wkith the headline, as it indicates that we are the ones who give a do-do about our club, whereas old Balmain people have no interest in saving their team.

Demonstrates how quick Balmain are prepared to sell out.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
You know why, because Balmain got the better deal from the joint venture. They feel Wests Tigers is Balmain Tigers. You only have to see the number of Balmain jerseys compared to wests magpie jerseys there at games. I get so many people telling me to get over it when I wear my wests jersey, yet balmain people get off scott free!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I am still of the belief, that certain elements in the Wests Tigers and Balmain are hoping to see the Magpies hand over all power to Wests Tigers before Balmain Tigers are to announce they are broke and have to fall on their sword.

I believe the Balmain side are worried that if they can no longer uphold their half of the joint venture the power will shift back in favour of the Magpies. They are probably scared that if this happens, they will lose identity in the joint venture as the Wests Group start dictating more terms.

The Wests Tigers constitution clearly states if one side is unable to fulfill its commitment to the JV, the option reverts to the other side to purchase their half of the JV. If this happens the Wests Group would have full control of the Wests Tigers.

Currently we have a third entity riding off the coat tails of this joint venture, Ryde Eastwood Leagues Club. Last time I checked they weren't on the JV agreement, yet they now have back door entry to the Wests Tigers through the BRET football team. I find it disgusting that Ryde Eastwood have been allowed to bask in the glory thanks to the help of not only the Wests Tigers support (and Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown money), but with our local Magpies players forced under duress to play for BRET.

If I was on the Wests Ashfield or Wests Campbelltown board, I'd be disgusted in knowing we are footing the bill from our own pockets, whilst Balmain has allowed this third entity into the JV to cover theirs.

It is clearly obvious the Wests Group are in a very powerful position here, and Balmain are scared.
This is why I believe it is important for the Wests Group to remain strong and united.

If the Wests Group continue to do what is best by its district area and continue to provide both local junior and local senior representative opportunities we keep in place the skill sets and abilities to manage and run a football club for if or when Balmain go down the 'gurgler'.






As for Tim Sheens wanting all Wests Tigers contracted players under 1 roof, there are some valid arguments against that:

- The first thing that must be said is.... coaches come and go.
Who's to say the next coach wants a different setup, or a wider reach into the Wests District and Group 6. Too bad if we throw the baby out with the bath water.

- We won the premiership in 2005 with two NSW Cup teams. Enough said!

- who knows what the Independent Commission is going to do. What if they re-instate reserve grade. Wests Tigers get a reserve grade side, but Wests Magpies are gone and are no longer able to field a team in the new state competition that will replace Jim Beam Cup and NSW Cup.
If it was up to me I'd have:
- NRL
- NRL Reserve Grade
(NRL clubs must contract 50 players with a minimum of 25 players under 23 years of age to fill the two sides)

Then as a district rep competition (that is much cheaper to maintain with all NRL players gone):
- NSW Cup (Opens)
- Jersey Flegg (U20s)
- SG Ball (U18s)
- Harold Matthews (U16s)

If we throw away our capability of running a senior representative side, we will be caught with our pants down if the Independent Commission does reinstate (and they should) a better replacement for the U20's competition.

- The final option that seems to be dismissed really quickly is... why not have the Magpies as the sole NSW Cup feeder team of the Wests Tigers. It works for the Panthers with Windsor, Souths = Norths, Easts = Newtown, Parra = Wenty, Raiders = Mounties, Dragons = Cutters and the Warriors = Vulcans.
I am still yet to hear an acceptable answer as to why this wont work. The club can be trained to Wests Tigers specifications, but it will remain a Magpies Club, keeping our proud 104 year old history alive whilst keeping a presence and local opportunities in our district.

^^^again I don’t think Balmain want to allow this to happen as it shifts too much power away from them.




Finally, I think it is fair that we give Wests Tigers the opportunity to present their White Paper.

I think it is fair that we consider their plan carefully.

But before we agree to anything... their plan must comprehensively cover the issues of what will fill the vacuum if the Wests Magpies are to disolve their NSW Cup team.

Off the top of my head some of the issues are...

- can the Magpies field a Bundy Cup side instead as a way of continuing to provide a local senior rep side for the district.
- The Magpies must get reinstated as the District Club
- The junior reps control (Matts and Ball) must be handed back to the Magpies
- The Magpies must retain the right to re-enter the NSW Cup down the track if they desire to do so.
- The Magpie on the Wests Tigers sleeve must be re-instated to the shoulder and increased in size
- The Magpies must have in writing and released to the public, when and where the Wests Tigers will build their (talked about) training facility in the Macarthur for the U20s. We have been promised this by the Wests Tigers since 2000. Yet still nothing to show for it.
- A firm commitment to return to playing more than 4 NRL games a year at Campbelltown
- A thorough written and detailed report on how, and timeline of when the transition will happen.

WE DO NOT AND CANNOT TOLERATE THIS NOT BEING DONE PROPERLY.

WE CANNOT FIND OURSELVES IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT THE START OF THIS YEAR.

If the proposals are not in the best interest of our district which we are constitutionally obliged to look after, we must reject them!

If the proposals are not thorough enough or well thought out. Send them back!

If it takes more time to do it right, then take the time!

We need to know by the end of July what is happening next year so we can start recruiting players and coaches and put in place what is required to field a successful team next year.

2013's off season training begins in November. We need to know well before that what the plan of attack is to ensure the embarrassing situation our proud club has found itself in this year doesn't ever happen again.

Surely our 1908 foundation club, the Western Suburbs Magpies have earnt the right to that.

But most importantly, what ever happens.....

The western suburbs district rugby league football club is just that. A club! A club with members! Not a business.

It must be presented to the members,

The members must have a chance to ask questions

The members must have time to decide

AND THEN IT MUST BE VOTED ON BY THE MEMBERS.

THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE!


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Magpies1981
Member Avatar
Harold Matthews
[ *  * ]
Very valid galahs as always
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Awesome speech Galahs, we are so lucky to have you as a magpie supporter.

Can I pickup on one thing though, there was no u20's comp when we signed the JV agreement. I was of the opinion that the JV was going to move its entire base permanently to Campbelltown within the first 2 years. Of course this never happened.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
they originally said they were planning to move the Wests Tigers training facilities to the Macarthur back in 2000 to 2005, now they are offering the U20's to move.

Until I see a thorough plan, and agreement I don't believe them.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Magpie70
Member Avatar
Ball Boy
[ * ]
You make a lot of sense Galahs. I just hope the Wests group can remain united for the sake of this great club.

Make my blood boil to see as a corporate sponsor I get invited to a wests tigers ball and its centre piece is celebrating Balmain tigers hall of fame. No mention that the two great players also played for the Magpies! :angry:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
Speaking of players who have played for both Wests and Balmain, have we ever done a post on naming all the players who have played for both clubs? Might be a great idea to start a post if we havent?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
14Wests
Member Avatar
NYC U20's
[ *  * ]
I'm with you galahs,lets see what WT have to say maybe just maybe sense will prevail and the mighty magpies will survive again,and it may benifit us,maybe.I am waiting to see what is proposed.Will the name 'Wests"go in this proposal too??.Go the mighty magpies...


:magpies: :magpies: :worship: :letmesee:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
Just off the topic, do we know if Galahs and Magpies get along in the wild? LOL :laughing:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wests, Balmain boards to meet, decision looms on feeder teams
June 14, 2012



WESTERN SUBURBS and Balmain members have been assured that no decision on the futures of the two foundation clubs will be made at a historic meeting tonight of all Wests Tigers stakeholders.

The meeting, which will be attended by the boards of Western Suburbs football club, Balmain football club, Wests Ashfield Leagues Club, Wests Campbelltown Leagues Club and Balmain Leagues Club, will be the first time the partners in the joint venture have come together since the formation of Wests Tigers in 1999.

They will hear a proposal from Wests Tigers chief executive Stephen Humphreys for the joint-venture club to take over the running of the Western Suburbs and Balmain district football clubs - a move that would lead to a combined team playing in next season's NSW Cup competition. However, Western Suburbs DRLFC director Daniel Watson-Hayes told the Herald that the gathering was purely an information meeting and no vote would be taken.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The five boards would separately consider the proposal outlined by Humphreys at a later date but members of the Wests and Balmain football clubs will make the final decision when they vote at special meetings. Watson-Hayes said a meeting of Western Suburbs football club members had already been scheduled for June 30.

''Under the terms of the joint-venture agreement, Wests Magpies and Balmain will continue to field separate teams at every level outside the NRL,'' Watson-Hayes said. ''That can only change if the members of both clubs agree.''

The only exception to that is the under-20s National Youth Competition as it was not in existence when Wests and Balmain formed the joint venture 13 years ago and is run by the NRL.

However, the Balmain Ryde Eastwood team is effectively Wests Tigers' feeder side in the NSW Cup as all of the NRL contracted players not required by Tim Sheens each week are sent to play there - including Magpies juniors, who have to play against their own club.

The Magpies have previously considered proposals to take Canberra's surplus players, who now play for Cabramatta, or form a joint venture with the Dragons, which did not have a NSW Cup team until the formation of the Illawarra Cutters this season.

Uncertainty about the Magpies' future, compounded by the fact they no longer get any players not required by the Tigers each week, has led to the club fielding a weakened team that has regularly been on the wrong end of big scorelines this season.

Wests Ashfield Leagues Club, which effectively bankrolls Wests Tigers as Balmain Leagues Club has been closed for more than two years, agreed to fund the Magpies' NSW Cup team after supporters organised a protest rally in February to save the club.

However, Wests Ashfield directors announced that the licensed club supported a combined Wests Tigers team in next year's NSW Cup, as the Magpies continue to field junior representative teams. The Balmain NSW Cup team is funded by Ryde Eastwood.

Among the proposed changes, Humphreys is expected to outline if Wests Tigers take control of the two football clubs is a plan for the under-20s team to be based at Campbelltown.

Some officials expected the issue to be put to a vote at tonight's meeting but a statement issued by Western Suburbs football club directors sought to allay fears of members.

Meanwhile, Wests Tigers have lost talented young five-eighth Curtis Sironen to injury for Sunday's match against the Sydney Roosters at Leichhardt Oval.

The 18-year-old is to undergo minor knee surgery this week and is expected to miss the next two matches for the Tigers.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/wests-balmain-boards-to-meet-decision-looms-on-feeder-teams-20120613-20ak0.html#ixzz1xkVk5Tid
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Brand should be from top to bottom
13 Jun, 2012 12:00 AM
LAST Friday night’s win against the Melbourne Storm makes it seven in a row for our mighty Wests Tigers.

Are you feeling that 2005 vibe yet? Mmmm, maybe.

What’s certain, however, is that as a brand Wests Tigers is surely one of the best success stories in Aussie sport.

It has a huge fan base, huge merchandising presence, huge stars, huge TV ratings and the most entertaining (if not the most stress-inducing) style of playing footy in the NRL.

As far as brand recognition goes, Wests Tigers is like McDonald’s wrapped in Cadbury, dipped in Coca-Cola with a side-dish of Apple.

Yet it’s badly under-utilised.

Instead, entrenched factions loyal to Balmain, or Ashfield, or whoever else, have left parts of the junior organisation looking like a pig’s breakfast, amid politics, protests, accusations and failed junior competitions in areas that should be a breeding ground of footy talent.

And ridiculous situations such as talented NSW Cup players from Campbelltown being force fed into Balmain-Ryde-Eastwood teams.

I don’t pretend to know all the ins-and-outs and, quite frankly, I don’t want to.

Like many local sports fans, business leaders and politicians, I’m increasingly of the view that the ‘‘joint venture’’ should be replaced by a single Wests Tigers brand — from top to bottom.

That might seem outrageous to, say, a local Wests Magpies traditionalist (and I have respect for that loyalty). But . . .

Many of us are fans whose loyalty to the Wests Tigers stems directly from our loyalty to Campbelltown.

And, at the moment, poor ’ol Campbelltown is suffering in these ongoing divisions.

The old maxim is that Australia was officially founded in 1901, but only truly became a unified nation in the trenches of Gallipoli in 1915. I think, particularly for a lot of younger fans, our team’s Gallipoli was the grand final of 2005.

I truly hope we can build on that, and create a unified structure in which footy talent from Campbelltown can shine.

There’s a critical meeting being held this week to discuss the future of the club(s).

It will be very interesting to see whether the factions can embrace the future, or stay locked in a prison of rivalries.

And be fair to Campbelltown.

jmcgill@fairfaxme dia.com.au

http://www.macarthuradvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/columns/brand-should-be-from-top-to-bottom/2589811.aspx
Edited by galahs, Jun 14 2012, 05:15 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
galahs
Member Avatar
State of Origin
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Magpies will take a hard look
13 Jun, 2012 12:00 AM
WESTS Tigers' owners, Wests and Balmain, will meet tomorrow to discuss a proposal to have a single NSW Cup team, named Wests Tigers.

The team would be scheduled to play six games at Campbelltown and six games at Leichhardt.

The meeting will also focus on poor results of the Magpies' NSW Cup team, which are yet to win a game this season.

The Tigers' two NSW Cup sides met earlier this season with Balmain Ryde-Eastwood defeating the Magpies 88-16.

The Magpies have been defeated by an average margin of more than 50 points in their games this

season.

In this season's 14 NSW Cup games the Magpies have scored 156 points and have conceded a massive 824.

Many Magpies fans feel Balmain's NSW Cup side is being favoured over the Magpies which is being reflected in the Magpies' heavy losses this season.

Wests Tigers chief executive Stephen Humphreys believes there will be a positive outcome from the meeting.

The Magpies went down 64-10 at Campbelltown Sports Stadium on Saturday against a Newcastle Knights team which included several NRL first graders.

Wests scored their first try through Dean Parata in the 22nd minute.

Interchange forward Latu Fifita stood in a tackle and offloaded to Parata who ran 40 metres to score beside the post.

Halfback Nigel Millgate converted to have the Magpies trailing 10-6 and Newcastle's further tries took the half-time score to 28-6.

The Knights raced to a 64-6 lead before Magpies scored their final try with three minutes remaining.

Latu Fifita charged on to the ball on Newcastle's 20-metre line, carrying defenders over the line with him.

Magpies were well served by Parata in defence and his play from dummy half, front rowers Jay Maseuli and Aaron Sweeney and Tom Morrison.

Seffa Sifalua and Henry Iuta made some monster hits and Chris Nay continues to improve after only recently coming back from serious injury.

Interchange forward Alan Daly tackled heartily before injuring his shoulder and halfback Nigel Millgate continues to improve.

¦ Magpies will play away on Saturday against Auckland Vulcans.

http://www.macarthuradvertiser.com.au/news/local/sport/rugby-league/magpies-will-take-a-hard-look/2589802.aspx
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1eyedmagpie
NSW Cup
[ *  *  * ]
Interesting article by J. McGill. Not sure if I am as accepting to the Wests Tigers as he is, but not completely against what he wrote. Does anyone else have an opinion?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
« Previous Topic · Wests Magpies Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply


www.wests.co.nr is an unofficial forum run by volunteer Rugby League Supporters
Posts, messages, views, expressions or opinions on this forum DO NOT represent the official view of ANY Football Club.

Free Domains Hosting at .co.nr