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Season 2014
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Topic Started: Nov 12 2013, 06:21 PM (126,326 Views)
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Moose
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Feb 9 2014, 07:34 AM
Post #281
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Its not hard to see that second division is draining players from traditional first grade clubs. You only have to look at the teams that are struggling to field sides in the top grade and look whats around them Thirlemere are struggling bordered by Bargo and now Picton wanting second division Moss Vale struggling surrounded by Bundanoon, Robertson and Mittagong also looking at a second division side and all this in an area where population growth rates are the slowest in the group. The question is are the group looking for a premier comp as each year they talk about or are they after registration names on paper to boost numbers as unfortunately you can't have it both ways and be sustainable.
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footydad
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Feb 9 2014, 08:43 AM
Post #282
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- foal
- Feb 8 2014, 09:55 PM
"Picton last year was saying Bargo would drain there cattle hasnt happened has it Foal?" Footydad, don't be calling me out unless you know what you're talking about. I said that at the end of 2011 that we were struggling because of the player drain to Bargo. I, along with 3 other Picton guys in their 30's had to make comebacks so we could finish the season in 2011. In 2012 I played 2 games, one of them was the last game of the year with Matt McPherson and Luke Davies just so we didn't have to forfeit. Thankfully in 2013 our club sustained a playing roster solid enough to comfortably field 2 teams. Now, we're good for numbers and we've covered the Bargo player drain. But before you talk do-do maybe do some research and see how many Bargo players, coaches and committee members came from Picton and how the rise of that club coincided with the fall of our reserve grade. Thankfully there's been a resurgence at Picton due largely to the return of several key people that have revived the passion which has enticed lots of talented juniors to return.
Dont call me out,I Apologise Foal I didnt realise we were two 15 year old kids goin behind the sheds after school for a donnybrook.Im not talking DO-DO facts is you made the comment,Great for your club that passionate people have returned and restored your club to glory days and now yous are looking at putting in a 2nd Div side,Hats off to your club.
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rustynail
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Feb 9 2014, 09:44 AM
Post #283
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- Orana87
- Feb 8 2014, 11:04 AM
- footydad
- Feb 8 2014, 09:50 AM
Lets look at some facts Campbelltown City should have Firsts reserves 2nd Div and 18's they have the biggest pool to choose from with the Eagles now gone.Appin should have all 3 grades as well next closest to campbelltown but will money be there for this.Mount Annan the mind boggles to why they cant get it together plenty sponsors on ther doorsteps.Picton last year was saying Bargo would drain there cattle hasnt happened has it Foal? Warragamba been a 2nd Div club for neally a decade close to penrith and you would think plenty sponsorship opportunities.Mossvale no disrespect but Hindmarsh done them no favours last year and agree with you Disco Robertson Bundanoon and Mittagong all on top of each other long term the outlook is bleak.The Oaks have struggled for years but looks like they might be on the mend this year but hows them points looking?Narellan Points Points Points cashed up club.Thirlmere may have to re build again has taken a big blow but have tried to buy premierships of late and failed Heckenbergs Trotters ETC.
Some fair discussion points here footydad that the Group needs to be proactive on. In our case, I'll say that there isn't a great attraction for 1st Grade clubs to field 2nd Division. We did it in 2010-11. Through no fault of their own, this team is/ was at the bottom of the food chain in the club structure. Volunteers stretched even further, essential funds diverted from 1st Grade... And the fact of the matter is that if 1st Grade ain't winning, you won't have a club. And now the Group has this central venue structure for 2nd Division games, so conceivably your 2nd Division team never plays with the other teams in your club. At City, we may have a large pool, but let me say most Campbelltown kids would rather play against us. Picton benefits enormously from Campbelltown and the pleasant drive along Menangle Road (as opposed to the worsening Narellan Road). Kids like Dengate, Matthews, Clarke etc have been raised to hate City. Josh Bishop, Warriors junior and ex- Oaks centre, was appalled when asked to come across. IMO, referee numbers allowing, 2nd Division should be played home & away. It'd be great if these teams had 18Bs also playing before them. Robertson vs Bargo in 18Bs & 2nd Division would be a good afternoon's CRL. Foal, can't agree with the soccer style set-up. The attraction of Group 6 over other competitions is the vertical structure of game day... 18s clapping on reggies clapping on 1sts. Senior footy IMO is about the club, not individual teams. 1sts away @ Camden, Reserves away @ Moss Vale, 18s @ The Oaks... Not for me. Rustynail, fair point- 8 'super clubs' may be better than what we have now. Probably a discussion the Group needs to have. But how do you kill footy in Warragamba, Robbo & the like? I've heard an idea that 2nd Division clubs have further restraint placed upon them including things like an over 28yo league, strict residential boundaries on young blokes & Group management intervening where a 2nd Division player is clearly too good for that comp. All worthwhile ideas. The lack of young people putting their hand up to run clubs is also pressing. Society has become too busy and volunteer hours decline all around. The Highlands needs two 1st Division 1st Grade clubs. Warragamba is severely impacted by the $$$$$ available in the Penrith JL A Grade. Emu Plains, Brothers, St Mary's and St Clair are all very wealthy clubs, and pay accordingly, with $250 game minimums. A combination of factors is now resulting in a major decline of available 1st Grade standard players across the Group. It may be time for Group Management to have a think tank on how this decline is best arrested. Whether they are "super clubs" or not maybe limit the numbers in each grade to 8 but maybe something could work along the lines of say Mossy have 18's & 1sts and play under the banner of Rorbertson or Bundy in reggis. So the smaller towns retain an identity but allow player movements between the 2 clubs. I know there will be rivalries that may have to be put aside for the good of the game but could something similar happen with Warragamba/Oakdale or Oaks and Thirlmere/Bargo??? Just a thought
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Servico
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Feb 9 2014, 11:42 AM
Post #284
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- rustynail
- Feb 9 2014, 09:44 AM
- Orana87
- Feb 8 2014, 11:04 AM
- footydad
- Feb 8 2014, 09:50 AM
Lets look at some facts Campbelltown City should have Firsts reserves 2nd Div and 18's they have the biggest pool to choose from with the Eagles now gone.Appin should have all 3 grades as well next closest to campbelltown but will money be there for this.Mount Annan the mind boggles to why they cant get it together plenty sponsors on ther doorsteps.Picton last year was saying Bargo would drain there cattle hasnt happened has it Foal? Warragamba been a 2nd Div club for neally a decade close to penrith and you would think plenty sponsorship opportunities.Mossvale no disrespect but Hindmarsh done them no favours last year and agree with you Disco Robertson Bundanoon and Mittagong all on top of each other long term the outlook is bleak.The Oaks have struggled for years but looks like they might be on the mend this year but hows them points looking?Narellan Points Points Points cashed up club.Thirlmere may have to re build again has taken a big blow but have tried to buy premierships of late and failed Heckenbergs Trotters ETC.
Some fair discussion points here footydad that the Group needs to be proactive on. In our case, I'll say that there isn't a great attraction for 1st Grade clubs to field 2nd Division. We did it in 2010-11. Through no fault of their own, this team is/ was at the bottom of the food chain in the club structure. Volunteers stretched even further, essential funds diverted from 1st Grade... And the fact of the matter is that if 1st Grade ain't winning, you won't have a club. And now the Group has this central venue structure for 2nd Division games, so conceivably your 2nd Division team never plays with the other teams in your club. At City, we may have a large pool, but let me say most Campbelltown kids would rather play against us. Picton benefits enormously from Campbelltown and the pleasant drive along Menangle Road (as opposed to the worsening Narellan Road). Kids like Dengate, Matthews, Clarke etc have been raised to hate City. Josh Bishop, Warriors junior and ex- Oaks centre, was appalled when asked to come across. IMO, referee numbers allowing, 2nd Division should be played home & away. It'd be great if these teams had 18Bs also playing before them. Robertson vs Bargo in 18Bs & 2nd Division would be a good afternoon's CRL. Foal, can't agree with the soccer style set-up. The attraction of Group 6 over other competitions is the vertical structure of game day... 18s clapping on reggies clapping on 1sts. Senior footy IMO is about the club, not individual teams. 1sts away @ Camden, Reserves away @ Moss Vale, 18s @ The Oaks... Not for me. Rustynail, fair point- 8 'super clubs' may be better than what we have now. Probably a discussion the Group needs to have. But how do you kill footy in Warragamba, Robbo & the like? I've heard an idea that 2nd Division clubs have further restraint placed upon them including things like an over 28yo league, strict residential boundaries on young blokes & Group management intervening where a 2nd Division player is clearly too good for that comp. All worthwhile ideas. The lack of young people putting their hand up to run clubs is also pressing. Society has become too busy and volunteer hours decline all around. The Highlands needs two 1st Division 1st Grade clubs. Warragamba is severely impacted by the $$$$$ available in the Penrith JL A Grade. Emu Plains, Brothers, St Mary's and St Clair are all very wealthy clubs, and pay accordingly, with $250 game minimums. A combination of factors is now resulting in a major decline of available 1st Grade standard players across the Group. It may be time for Group Management to have a think tank on how this decline is best arrested.
Whether they are "super clubs" or not maybe limit the numbers in each grade to 8 but maybe something could work along the lines of say Mossy have 18's & 1sts and play under the banner of Rorbertson or Bundy in reggis. So the smaller towns retain an identity but allow player movements between the 2 clubs. I know there will be rivalries that may have to be put aside for the good of the game but could something similar happen with Warragamba/Oakdale or Oaks and Thirlmere/Bargo??? Just a thought As in the NRL gone past clubs in Group 6 are now in need of having to merge to survive. Oakdale/Oaks/Warragamba could all merge as 1 club and under 1 new name as have NRL clubs. Have 1 southern highlands side also field all grades and if numbers permit possibly 2 sides each for lower grades? Just a thought, and then Picton/Thilmere/Bargo merge also. You could play at alternate home grounds of the merged clubs so as to withhold the grounds to the traditional clubs and keep ties with their junior clubs. 2nd division scrapped for 1 team clubs, only allow a 1st grade club to field 2nd div if numbers permit. 1 team 2nd div clubs would be forced to merge into neighbouring 1st grade club.
Edited by Servico, Feb 9 2014, 11:45 AM.
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Servico
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Feb 9 2014, 11:49 AM
Post #285
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Group 6 is in need of a complete review to plan out its long time survival. The player talent coming through is just not there anymore.
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lookingforaclub
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Feb 9 2014, 12:57 PM
Post #286
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Hey guys I am still looking to find a club this year can anyone help me out please....all I want to do is play the game I love
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foal
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Feb 9 2014, 02:55 PM
Post #287
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- footydad
- Feb 9 2014, 08:43 AM
- foal
- Feb 8 2014, 09:55 PM
"Picton last year was saying Bargo would drain there cattle hasnt happened has it Foal?" Footydad, don't be calling me out unless you know what you're talking about. I said that at the end of 2011 that we were struggling because of the player drain to Bargo. I, along with 3 other Picton guys in their 30's had to make comebacks so we could finish the season in 2011. In 2012 I played 2 games, one of them was the last game of the year with Matt McPherson and Luke Davies just so we didn't have to forfeit. Thankfully in 2013 our club sustained a playing roster solid enough to comfortably field 2 teams. Now, we're good for numbers and we've covered the Bargo player drain. But before you talk do-do maybe do some research and see how many Bargo players, coaches and committee members came from Picton and how the rise of that club coincided with the fall of our reserve grade. Thankfully there's been a resurgence at Picton due largely to the return of several key people that have revived the passion which has enticed lots of talented juniors to return.
Dont call me out,I Apologise Foal I didnt realise we were two 15 year old kids goin behind the sheds after school for a donnybrook.Im not talking DO-DO facts is you made the comment,Great for your club that passionate people have returned and restored your club to glory days and now yous are looking at putting in a 2nd Div side,Hats off to your club. Fair enough. My point was that at the time I made that comment it was fair dinkum. 2 seasons in a row we were unable to finish the year with a full reserve grade squad. It's likely that it will happen again too. I believe it's a year to year process. As quickly as we've returned to a strong position it could go the other way. And we're by no means the only club that faces this issue. Word is a number of ex Workers are at Bargo this year and they've had plenty of ex Roosters the last couple of years too. I'm not intending for this to be an attack on Bargo, they're as entitled to exist as anyone. But the very presence of stand alone 2nd division clubs in areas with small populations where 1st grade teams exist will always create issues with player drain. The current system, I believe, is far too simplistic and doesn't work. Simply saying if you have 2 teams you play 1st and reserve grade and if you have 1 you play 2nd division is not practicle.
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Orana87
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Feb 9 2014, 07:10 PM
Post #288
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- foal
- Feb 9 2014, 02:55 PM
The current system, I believe, is far too simplistic and doesn't work. Simply saying if you have 2 teams you play 1st and reserve grade and if you have 1 you play 2nd division is not. Ok... Foal (& your opinion is respected... At least by me...) unattached reggies are subservient to the 1st Grade draw... & play a max of 5 home games. Thoughts??
A review is needed of how the current 1st Grade talent is/ was produced & why this is now on the wane. Oakdale & Oberon have more chance of merging than The Oaks & Workies...
16s & 18s competitions as pathways to G6 1st Grade? Thoughts?
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Gal
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Feb 9 2014, 07:47 PM
Post #289
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If you don't pay players they will leave If you don't provide players with a happy enviroment they will leave If the team is not successful they will leave If the players don't like the coach they will leave All these problems and not enough quality players create a difficult situation for to retain players
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foal
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Feb 9 2014, 07:51 PM
Post #290
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- Orana87
- Feb 9 2014, 07:10 PM
- foal
- Feb 9 2014, 02:55 PM
The current system, I believe, is far too simplistic and doesn't work. Simply saying if you have 2 teams you play 1st and reserve grade and if you have 1 you play 2nd division is not.
Ok... Foal (& your opinion is respected... At least by me...) unattached reggies are subservient to the 1st Grade draw... & play a max of 5 home games. Thoughts?? A review is needed of how the current 1st Grade talent is/ was produced & why this is now on the wane. Oakdale & Oberon have more chance of merging than The Oaks & Workies... 16s & 18s competitions as pathways to G6 1st Grade? Thoughts? Yeah, those are definitely workable options. One thing is for sure, it has to be looked at and fast.
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Orana87
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Feb 9 2014, 07:58 PM
Post #291
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- Gal
- Feb 9 2014, 07:47 PM
If you don't pay players they will leave If you don't provide players with a happy enviroment they will leave If the team is not successful they will leave If the players don't like the coach they will leave All these problems and not enough quality players create a difficult situation for to retain players Rather learne'd' remark Gal... Provides you with some social capital.. Give us some background about your involvement in G6...
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foal
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Feb 9 2014, 08:03 PM
Post #292
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- Moose
- Feb 9 2014, 07:34 AM
Its not hard to see that second division is draining players from traditional first grade clubs. You only have to look at the teams that are struggling to field sides in the top grade and look whats around them Thirlemere are struggling bordered by Bargo and now Picton wanting second division Moss Vale struggling surrounded by Bundanoon, Robertson and Mittagong also looking at a second division side and all this in an area where population growth rates are the slowest in the group. The question is are the group looking for a premier comp as each year they talk about or are they after registration names on paper to boost numbers as unfortunately you can't have it both ways and be sustainable. One minor correction. Picton doesn't necessarily want a 2nd division team. But, the club is considering it based on player numbers. There's a hell of a lot to consider. Last year we had a handful of reserve graders sitting out each week. However the club would prefer that situation to having 3 teams with players stretched so thin that when a few injuries come up we have blokes playing 2 or 3 games to avoid forfeits. We've made it public that if we get an extra 10 or so blokes in the next 2 weeks we'll submit a 2nd division team.
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pastrami
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Feb 10 2014, 01:44 PM
Post #293
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- Gal
- Feb 9 2014, 07:47 PM
If you don't pay players they will leave If you don't provide players with a happy enviroment they will leave If the team is not successful they will leave If the players don't like the coach they will leave All these problems and not enough quality players create a difficult situation for to retain players Call it culture, vibe or loyalty but once a player movement starts it is hard to stop the snowball effect.
Its happening at Oakdale and Thirlmere now, Picton went through, Narellan in the mid 2000's, Camden, Moss Vale after they won the comp. A good committee can head off the exodus but it isn't as simple as it sounds with retirements, poaching, family committments, injury and work all having an effect on who turns up pre season.
Some players are holding off waiting to see who is playing where as it is better to be playing in a winning team rather than a losing and dysfunctional team, no matter whether your mates are there or not.
Everyone wrote off Picton last season having missed the semi's the year before, losing their first few games and with a mid season buy where able to come home with a wet sail and win the darn thing.
I dont think Group 6 can do anything specifically for Thirlmere or Oakdale at the moment and trying to stop transfers to other Group clubs proved unsuccessful. Survival of the fittest maybe.
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Gal
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Feb 10 2014, 06:58 PM
Post #294
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I'd rather not speak about my involvement in group 6. But most of my views are looking in from the outside.
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Tik
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Feb 11 2014, 01:18 PM
Post #295
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has anyone got the all stars squads/team list
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foal
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Feb 11 2014, 01:53 PM
Post #296
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- Tik
- Feb 11 2014, 01:18 PM
has anyone got the all stars squads/team list They should be announced this Wednesday.
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Lecky
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Feb 11 2014, 07:06 PM
Post #297
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Been out to training at Mossy today just to put all rumours to sleep club will be up and running in 2014 and putting an under 18s and reserve grade side in the comp with a view to rebuild the club by encouraging and developing local talent rather than buying in a quick fix. Numbers were reasonable for first full training session there room for a few more if anyone in the area is interested contact the club.
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Gal
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Feb 11 2014, 08:06 PM
Post #298
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Anybody know how Appin are going for numbers?
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cockpit000
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Feb 11 2014, 08:15 PM
Post #299
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Confirmed signings for the club:
Eddie paea David Howell James trotter Jack ledbrook (ex Camden) Jonesy (ex Camden)
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Orana87
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Feb 11 2014, 08:22 PM
Post #300
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Numbers building nicely at City now, going to be a good blend of youth and experience. Boys are training hard & fast. BTW, despite the claims of the Appin U/18 coach, we do have an U/18s team and they will be very strong..
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