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Is Satan a bad guy?
Topic Started: Jul 26 2010, 03:18 PM (337 Views)
Post #1 Jul 26 2010, 03:18 PM The Comedian
I was looking over some research over an idea i had back in uni, it was a theme of heaven vs hell and i did a heck of allot of research for it now with a youtube video i watched it got me thinking and when i looked into it, well it made sense.

Now this is from someone who hasnt read the bible but looking at sources is Satan or Lucifer really a bad guy. Now from what ive read there is little mention of Satan in the bible and more so the reasoning behind him being evil?
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Satan, as the story goes, began as the angel Lucifer, who outrightly rejected God and rebelled against him. God cast Lucifer and those who followed him into Hell, a place of eternal torture and despair, where God was not present.


Now no reason is given as to why he was cast out but given the fact God did end up killing millions of people in the bible, his actions to overthrow god could be seen as noble.

Anouther quote
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Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.


Thinking about it gaining knowledge between good and evil means someones actions can be judged to be one of those, so it begs the question why was this forbidden?

To me it Lucifer seems like a good guy standing up for what he saw to be right and judging by Gods actions within the bible his actions could be seen as just.

Now this is something to end it Lucifer was
"brighter once amidst the host of Angels, than that star the stars among."
For someone so up standing it must of taken something great for him to try and overthrow god yet that reason is never spoke of?
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Post #2 Jul 26 2010, 06:45 PM Faro
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Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did.


Adam and Eve did know that eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was wrong, because God specifically told them not too.

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The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
Genesis 2:15-17


So there's that.

As for Satan rebelling against God. That happened long before Noah, which is what I assume your talking about when you mentioned God killing millions of people.
Satan rebelled against God because he wanted to be equal to God. Not because he thought God was evil.

You said that Satan gave us knowledge of good and evil. By getting Adam and Eve to eat the fruit.
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"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

But what Satan really did was bring sin, pain, suffering, Death into the world. He didn't do us any favors, that's for sure.

You seem to forget, or maybe you just didn't know. That all the people God destroys in the Bible are evil people. If you created something, and loved it more than anything else, but it hated you, killed those that did love you, destroyed everything you created, were ungrateful for every good thing you had given them.. wouldn't you do something about that.

It can all be summed up quite easily. If you believe in Satan, you have to believe in God. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense. And if you believe in God, then you know that God is good. Satan is evil. It's that simple.

I find it odd that you did tons of research on this subject, but have never read the Bible. Seems to me that that book would be the first place you'd look for this kind of info.

Read the book of Job. It's a very interesting story. In which Satan challenges God. Saying that Job only loves God because God has blessed him with good things, and if God was to take away Jobs blessings, Job would curse him.
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Post #3 Jul 26 2010, 10:03 PM That English-Edge
Taking references from the bible, first of all only works if you are a believer... As for 'Is Satan a bad guy'... For a start, supposedly, Lucifer is an angel. It's quite a bit about perception.

It might be that 'bad' is only limited by your own boundaries, how you were brought up, as well as what is considered good in the community. I personally believe that the only thing in life that matters, is our interactions with others, and not with the physical world. So, I try to live a life that accommodates other people.
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Post #4 Jul 26 2010, 10:19 PM Faro
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Taking references from the bible, first of all only works if you are a believer


Non-believers aren't likely to believe Biblical references.. true. But if your asking about God, or Satan, Bible quotes and references should be expected. Matt made references to the Bible himself.
Edited by Faro, Jul 26 2010, 11:13 PM.
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Post #5 Jul 27 2010, 04:15 AM The Comedian
Im just basically looking at each one and Satan really doesnt sound like a bad guy, if you look at the bible with neither for or against either one the impression of god is that he is a tyrant.
The story of lucifer being cast out the reasoning is one sided there is no version of his story. Also when you take Lucifer has a perfect clone of God who supposedly turns against god, then that shows god has those same qualities.

Just look at the listhttp://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html
33,041,220 dead because of god,and the whole flood killing only evil people? what about the unborn or infants who have yet to make choices? that is just cold mass murder.

Also the whole apple thing, he mentions 'yours eyes will be open' rather than being a flock of sheep. Anouther thing that is mentioned you will see good and evil like god, thus meaning without eating the apple, god remains as the puppet master, it is in someways introducing freewill.

The more i look at religion and break it down the more flawed it becomes, most religions just want people to blindly follow no questions asked.
Edited by The Comedian, Jul 27 2010, 04:17 AM.
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Post #6 Jul 27 2010, 10:43 AM Faro
Lucifer was never a perfect clone of God. There is only one God, there's never been another.

Now assume for a moment that the Bible is true. Every word. That would mean that God created everything. He is all powerful. All knowing. And he is good. It would also mean that Satan is evil, thus solving your whole question, but that's not exactly my point.
My point is this. If God created this world.. this whole existence. That would mean (rather anyone likes it or not) that everything belongs to God. You called him a puppet master, I call him the creator. With the power, and the right to do whatever he pleases with his creations.

If you can believe that God has the power to destroy all those people on that list. Then why can't you believe the rest of the story?
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Post #7 Jul 27 2010, 11:39 AM The Comedian
Saying that though doesnt give him the right, like if you had a son just becuase you created it doesnt mean you have the right to kill it.

I dont believe it just debating it, i find the bible to be a work of fiction nothing more based around some true figures and events.

If there does turn out to be a god i would rather it be a figure who lets you lead your life without constraints.
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Post #8 Jul 27 2010, 01:35 PM Faro
He has every right. We don't have the right to kill our sons no. But we're not God. God makes all the rules. I don't always understand them, but I don't question them either. I know if God did it, it was the right thing to do. It's honestly that simple to me.
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Post #9 Aug 14 2010, 02:59 PM That English-Edge
If you can choose who lives, and who dies, that makes you a monster...
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Post #10 Aug 14 2010, 03:05 PM Faro
If you were talking about men you may be right. But Not God. Men have no right to choose such things, but the one who created men, absolutely has the right to choose what is done.
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