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Alien3; What could have been or should have been
Topic Started: Jun 20 2005, 01:03 AM (269 Views)
Duke Serkol
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Anybody here has the Quadrilogy? I bought it especially for this movie. In fact you could say I bought a DVD player especially for this movie.
And it paid off, the extended DVD version is better... but not as much as I was hoping. Not as much as it could and should have been.

The Making Of impressed me for its honesty: it's an apology.
It starts with what I believe is the only line we get from the movie's director (in all of the bonus disc. For the records, he is the only director out of four that did not partecipate in the commentary) and it says "I think they knew that I had given my blood and sweat to make it work, but I wasn't clever enough to come up with something that would blow everybody away" then other comments such as "It was just set up wrong to begin with" and "It was really sort of a bad period for us all, this film. We were fighting a lost battle all the time"
At one point we even have a sequence of everybody looking tired and distressed, including the alien with its head hanging down depressed.

Then we learn that the very original idea, completely separate and different from the movie that would eventually be made, was to set the movie on the Aliens' homeworld, to explain what they are really.
Could have been good, but I'm sort of glad they didn't. However this was only the beginning of their search for a plot.
The next idea thrown around was to set the movie on Earth, which is what they probably should have done, those who have read Aliens Earth Hive will likely agree with me (though I did not really like its sequels either :lol:)
Then one of the ideas that would shape the movie as we know it: a ship on its way to a prison planet. Ripley would not be in it though, the starring character would have been a prisoner.
At no point in time Hicks was intended to make a comeback (which sucks, Hicks was cool)

Then in comes Vincent Ward. He came up with the main plot for the current movie. It was originally going to be a truly gothic themed movie.
The story was set on an artificial planet made mostly of wood and inhabited by a group of monks (who hate science, hence the wood). Wooden cathedrals, windmills, wheat fields on the surface and a furnace near the center (obviously representing hell). The main plot is the one we got, with Ridley crashlanding on the planet, sole survivor. She is interrogated and befriends one (and only one) of them, as in the movie with the doctor... well, not to that extent.
Then the alien starts killing and all the monks believe it is the devil (not just some fool calling it a dragon). Blame falls on Ripley that is then considered a witch and imprisoned. She escapes of course, but she begins to have horrible allucinations, that partially twist what she sees (be it a man, a horse, a sheep... or a baby) into aliens. This is of course because she is carrying one within, and she starts to be unbalanced and confused as to whom she owes her loyalty to, or whether she isn't really the cause of it all (after all, she's always there when the Aliens show up and always the sole survivor) and begins to seek a form of spiritual redemption.
As the alien hides among the wheat fields (an amazing scene was planned in which people standing in that field with farming implements tried to kill the alien, that was invisible, moving on four among the wheat) they'd set it on fire but this would spread to the whole planet, causing a large inferno.
The plot to lure and kill the alien into the foundry was also already present in this version. Ripley's death was also the same (except at some point they considered having her friend "exorcise" the alien out of her and into him, but thankfully that didn't get anywhere)
I'm somewhat glad they scrapped the wooden world (that would have been plain silly... oh and Ward also wanted to have a two meters high atmosphere which is simply absurd) and kept the religious theme (plus furnace) fusing it with the convict one. But unfortunately the insane amount of changes imposed by the studio asking him to scrap so much of the plot (and the way they imposed this, with a rather superior attitude) got Ward mad and he left (apparently a meddling woman was the last stroke though... yes, we lost an amazing movie to the ambition of a bitch, dammit).

In comes Fincher, they handed him a mutilated script and told him to make a movie... we can't really blame this poor guy if Alien3 disappointed many of us. Sure the brooding mood he gave to it didn't help any (and I could never really understand how they trap the alien in the end with all those doors, which made me more puzzled than captivated), but that was only the tip of the iceberg. And the studios made his job hell too, so it was Fox that called the flop on themselves really.

You all know how linear the plot became. Ripley is thrown on the planet with convicts, the alien starts killing, they have no real weapons (not because they are technology hating monks, but because they are in prison, sorta 'cuz there's no guards nor arms). The alien kills Ripley's convenient new "boyfriend". They try to trap it but fail (more on this later) and then they (knowing the company who's coming will not kill it) try again and succeed, then Ripley kills herself because she's carrying one.

As you can see it's a way simpler and less eventful plot.
What many ignore is that this is not even all what Fincher was trying to film. They had him cut down to this. On the DVD we have a subplot that is missing in the theatrical release.
First off the alien came out of an hox. I'm not sure which I prefer hox or dog... you know how the aliens get peculiarities from whatever they are born from, that was established with the first movie, and a dog seems more agile than an hox, but would also mean it'd have to be smaller than the old alien which this one isn't... however the movie was also going to explain why there was one facehugger and two aliens: it was a royal facehugger, more durable and meant to conceive both the queen and the one that would protect her before birth. But nevermind that, let's cut the movie to shreds...
Some may have noticed that the crazy little guy who called the alien a dragon disappears at some point. That's because originally they would manage to trap the alien on the first try (not without some mistakes and casualties) and this guy would free it (he's crazy you know...) and immediately get killed as of consequence.
But no, that's uncool...
There are other cuts that are restored with this version but they don't add much to the story.

And whatever version you watch, Ripley doesn't have allucinations (though she mistakes a pipe for a alien... which isn't really creepy) and she's perfectly balanced despite the fact she has a monster inside and is going to die whatever she does (I guess she's just that cool, uh?) removing more or less all depth from the plot. Oh but she's bald in this one, isn't that great? (Yes, that was sarcasm)
Fox you suck.

Personally (as said, without too much wood and too little atmosphere), I would have preferred the original plot in its integrity.
What do you guys think?
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coinilius
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I haven't seen Alien 3 in a long time, or seen the Qaudrilogy yet - although when I heard about the extended versions, I wanted to get it for the Alien 3 one alone as well :) I always thought Alien 3 didn't deserve the rep that it got - it was an extremely flawed movie, with a lot of bad points. But there was always something about it that I liked...

Maybe I could just see a lot of potential in the premise, with the prison planet, the dog alien. I like dog better than Ox for the speed and agility element, though they probably should have had the Alien be smaller than the aliens in the previous movies - a compact, fast and agile alien could have been quite scary. It had atmosphere, and the stripping back of the plot after the previous movie was something that I actually welcomed - it brought it back to the original a little more, something that was all atmosphere and dread. To bad it had no payoff in Alien 3 ^_^'

I'd heard of the 'wooden planet' thing before, and I have to say that it was a very good thing that they cut it, at least in my opinion :P The Aliens on earth would have been a good idea, but again - the first movie was a claustrophobic sci-fi horror. Aliens was an action movie. The Aliens on Earth plot probably would have made the movie fall into the same mold as the second, with lots of action. Not that I don't like action or Aliens, just that it isn't the sole direction for the series.

With less studio interference, Alien 3 could have worked quite well, with the basic premise as it stands, IMO. Also, I liked Alien 3 better than Alien Ressurection :P
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

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Duke Serkol
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I don't think it's just me but Alien3 always does to me the opposite effect that an Alien movie should have: it gets me sleepy.
The movie doesn't show the alien soon, and while this worked before it doesn't this time because we already know what is going to happen (nor we are proven wrong)
And I realize what Fincher was aiming it: a sense of impending doom.
Unfortunately it turns out as most characters most characters just apparently giving up and doing what Ripley says while they wait to die (and of course Ripley herself seems pretty much aware that she won't survive this one from the start)
The mood only picks up near the end, when they try to trap it in the furnace, but as I said, I could never quite figure out how the plan was supposed to work (wouldn't it have made more sense to shut all doors but two and then lead the monster where the lead is poured once and only once?)
This is clearly not what the average audience of an Alien movie wishes to see. So I prefer the more adrenalinic 4, even though the newborn was terribly silly.

I agree the planet of wood with a small layer of atmosphere around it was silly, but what about the rest of the original plot Coinilius?
Personally I would have liked the movie more if they had kept a more varied environment (Alien fight in wheat fields = :)') and if the inhabitants had been real bigots and acted on their faith rather than just saying "Oh we have great faith". Besides if there was really a group of monks (perhaps sharing the place with the convicts) we could have had a cathedral and you know alien + gargoyles is a win.
And I think Ripley's allucinations could really have saved the movie and made it one of the most frightening in the series.
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coinilius
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The hallucinations and the planet being more than just a barren wasteland could have worked very well - the religious fanatic side of the plot could have worked as well, but it also could have fallen flat depending on how it was developed. Like you suggested, perhaps a mixture of convicts and minks would have been the best way to go, since you could have things like massive cathedrals, as well as conflict between the prisoners and the monks. Maybe a religious order could have set up the 'prison' planet, making it more of a work commune or something, with many of the monks being converted ex-prisoners.

The wheat field scene would have been interesting (and more suited to the dog agile dog alien than a lumbering Ox alien), same with a massive, gothic cathedral adorned with gargoyles that the Alien could hide amongst.

Alien Ressurection... I just didn't like all that much. And is balls to the walls action really what audiences expect from the Alien series? After Aliens, I'd say yes, but was that what people expected after Alien, that the sequel would have space marines and action set pieces? And again, I'm not trying to say bad things about Aliens, as I really like that movie :)
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Duke Serkol
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Look, I'm not saying that Alien is all about action, but in a way or another it's supposed to keep you thrilled/on the edge of your seat.
Alien3 didn't keep me on the edge of my seat, it had me slouched down and pretty much asleep.
It's all a matter of mood and lack of anything new really (the hallucinations -dammit I knew I was mispelling that- could have worked in that sense) which Alien4 provides in the form of Ripley's new capabilities.
Of course I'll agree it wasn't up to the first two movies, but I still liked it better than 3.
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coinilius
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Don't worry, I'm not trying to argue that you have to have the sme opinion with me about the Alien Ressurection/Alien3 thing - and I'm definetly not argueing that Alien3 kept me thrilled or on the edge of my seat :) IMO, Alien Ressurection did not provide a particularly thrilling mood, nor a particularly scary one either.

I liked the scene with the failed Ripley clones, and the nod back to Mother of the original by calling the computer Father. And there was some other good stuff as well - I'm not saying Alien Ressurection was completely awful, just that there were things I prefered about Alien3, a lot of which were probably more thematic than actual good points about the movie itself - like I said, I haven't seen Alien3 in a while, so it's more my memory of it that I'm commenting on more than the actual movie itself :)

I'll tell you one thing, though - this thread has made me really want to watch all the Alien movies again. I might just have to finally pick me up a copy of the Qaudrilogy...

EDIT: Oops, I just realised that my previous post made it seem like I didn't like Alien Ressurection at all - thast was actually bad wording on my part. I did like parts of it, and it had some very well done art direction (except for the new born). When all was said and done, though, it just left me feeling 'meh.' Maybe because it was a much more polished form of dissapointing than Alien3 was.
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Duke Serkol
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I know, I just wanted to made it clear that I'm not a rabid Resurrection fan (just as you don't outright hate it)

They both did not have the right mood and atmosphere, but I found Resurrection more enjoyable than 3 (especially on repeated screening)
I just wish they did not cut the diagram showing what parts of the Auriga had lost life support because of hull breaches due to Alien acid. All the shooting in a space ship without consequences was kind of annoying seeing as that was one of the main point about the first movie.

Did you guys know the newborn was to have sexual organs? I do mean both of them! :lol:
It could have been a good idea too, a messed up alien hybrid... but it was so messed up that it looked more stupid than threatening. Granted it could eat your head in a single bite but that's not the point, the aliens were not to get on earth because they would take over... this thing could never do that.
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coinilius
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I know, I just wanted to made it clear that I'm not a rabid Resurrection fan (just as you don't outright hate it)


LoL - I was afraid that I was the one coming off as some kind of rabid Alien3 lover who hated all the other movies in the series :D

I'd heard before that Joss Whedon (the writer of Alien Ressurection) had originally invisioned the new born as being a lot different to what they had in the end - and I'd heard that there was a Geiger design floating around for the new born as well, at one point, but I'm not sure of the validity of that one...
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Duke Serkol
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It was supposed to be more similar to the typical alien (good thing) ...and randomly sprout wings at a certain point (VERY bad thing)
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coinilius
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Randomly.. sprout wings? :huh:

That would have been.. different. And certainly random.
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Duke Serkol
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Randomly sprout wings after surviving landing procedures on Earth from outside the space ship... VERY bad indeed.
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coinilius
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Randomly sprout wings after surviving landing procedures on Earth from outside the space ship... VERY bad indeed.


O_o

I think it's a curse of a lot of movies to have really silly ideas that fortunately get pruned (or at least transformed) as they progress, but still... that's just a little to out there.

Isn't there some kind of restored alternate ending of Alien Ressurection involving a junkyard on the Qaudrilogy? There was talk of a junkyard based ending for it at some point, and I remember people saying it was on the extended version... maybe I'm getting it confused with the randomly winged newborn ending (without even having known about the wings)...
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Duke Serkol
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There is, and it's not bad.
The only real difference is not that they landed, but that in the ending we got in theaters Ripley says she doesn't know what she will do next. In this one they have their minds made up already.
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coinilius
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Interesting.

It's official, I'm going to have to get the Qaudrilogy now to see all this extra stuff first hand :)
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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