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bs zelda ast on real hardware
Topic Started: Mar 8 2006, 10:17 PM (873 Views)
dforce
Hero Hatchling
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dforce, since you are understandably very busy with your own projects and you own life outside of videogames, do you know of anyone else who knows how to stream mp3's? i recently posted a request for help on the acmlm board, zophar's domain and romhacking.net without any luck.


sorry, i don't.
if you look around, you'll see that even in commercial games, it was done rarely, but for other reasons. (rom size dictated the price per cartridge for the publisher)

oh, and it's not mp3 streaming. decoding mp3s would be close to impossible on the snes, its very slow. it's more like playing back *.wav files.
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cent208
Heir to the Seven
"oh, and it's not mp3 streaming. decoding mp3s would be close to impossible on the snes, its very slow. it's more like playing back *.wav files."

i'm not that familar with the technical terms, would you call it streaming wav files?
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Garrett
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Well, he's obviously meaning that the SNES couldn't decompress MP3 on the fly, whereas WAV is lossless so no processing time is needed for decompression.

To the end user it's the same thing, only the total package size will be many times what it would be if MP3s *could* be used.

But even if each week turns out to be 20MB are we really gonna complain about downloading it? :)
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Litude
Sage
Isn't there a limit on the SNES game size? Besides d4s said he'd limit it as his copier only had limited amount of space.
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Duke Serkol
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Where'd that Princess go?
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Garrett,Mar 11 2006
09:38 PM
To the end user it's the same thing, only the total package size will be many times what it would be if MP3s *could* be used.

But even if each week turns out to be 20MB are we really gonna complain about downloading it? :)

Or maybe we could point to an mp3 to wav program available for download, so that the music may be downloaded as mp3 and then, once converted, patched with the game.
Just an idea, I'm not sure if it could work or not.
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Garrett
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I don't think emulators have any sort of size limit (other than your PC's RAM), but d4s wants it to work with copiers to give the most authentic experience possible (that's also why he wants to reinsert the Japanese title screen). If all else fails we may have to have "light" and "full" versions with less/shortened music.

MP3 conversion, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Since I assume the music is sourced from outside of the .smc itself(?) you could probably substitute Vivaldi or Metallica tracks as long as you named the files correctly.
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Duke Serkol
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Well, I certainly had never tought of playing Zelda accompanied by Mozart or Hard Rock music. Might be interesting :)
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dforce
Hero Hatchling
hold it a sec, guys!
i never said i was streaming *.wav files.
i said it works LIKE playing back *.wav (pcm audio, also similar to the format audio cds use) files, so you'd have a better idea how it works.

the point i was trying to get across was:
a difference between pcm and mp3 is that mp3 is a compressed format that has to be decoded first, while pcm audio is a digital representation of the audio that could be directly fed into some kind of d/a converter to make the sound audible without having to actually process it.

now the audio sample format the snes uses is neither uncompressed pcm *.wav nor mp3.
the snes' audio dsp only accepts data in brr-format. (bit rate reduced)
however, brr is a lossy compression with a ratio of 32:9 or around 1:3,5, unlike pcm audio, which is lossless.
the dsp has a built-in hardware decoder for that format, so there is no need to pre-process the audio data by the cpu or the spc before feeding it into the dsp, thats what makes it similar to pcm *.wav files.

to give you a rough quote, 60 seconds of brr audio at 11025hz consumes around 4mbit, that'd make around 10 minutes worth of music for a 48mbit rom or so.

oh, and on a related sidenote:
why not load the tunes in winamp, and then start up the game with an emulator?
no huge difference if you are only playing it on your computer, anyway.
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Duke Serkol
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Ah, pcm. Gotcha, that does make sense. How bad would it be if we settled for 4400hz?


I suppose just loading the music into winamp could work too. However some (old) computers may have problems running two applications that use sound simultaneously.
That and it could be problematic to, say, have the Dark World theme start at the same time as the rain does (unless, rather than making a playlist, we pause the game and go to winamp every time the music should change, but that would kind of spoil the fun)
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Garrett
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I don't really think we need 11025hz.

And as for Winamp if you really wanted to get crafty you could probably program the function buttons on your keyboard (assuming you have one of those multi-button internet keyboard things) to change tracks...
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God Ginrai
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Duke Serkol,Mar 12 2006
01:47 AM
Ah, pcm. Gotcha, that does make sense. How bad would it be if we settled for 4400hz?


I suppose just loading the music into winamp could work too. However some (old) computers may have problems running two applications that use sound simultaneously.
That and it could be problematic to, say, have the Dark World theme start at the same time as the rain does (unless, rather than making a playlist, we pause the game and go to winamp every time the music should change, but that would kind of spoil the fun)

Not to mention, there will be a lot of people who will be emulating these games on things OTHER than PCs.

I for example have been playing these games on my GP2X Linux handheld. I'm also sure that there will be a lot of people playing these games on either the PSP or some sort of Pocket PC. There'll probably even be people playing it on the GBA. (with the help of the Flash Linker)

I definately think we need a solution that is universal, not restricted to PCs.
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Duke Serkol
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Excellent point, thank you and welcome to the board :)
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Garrett
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How is the GBA emulation going, anyway? I mean, it has to cut off 40% of the screen size, so how would this game be playable?
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chief117
Sage
wait this has the audio????!?!?

:rolleyes:

looks left :unsure: looks right

smiles :)
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Litude
Sage
No it doesn't have the audio as d4s is just playing the ROM via the BS-X AFAIK. Plans are however, to somehow get the audio hacked into the game so that it would be playing when you're playing the game using an emulator (or copier).
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