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The Legend of Zelda - Third Quest; discuss Third Quest
Topic Started: Mar 24 2007, 06:23 AM (1,763 Views)
Conn
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Yep, for all questions, critic, bug report, feedback or whatsoever on my project, you are welcome to post here :)

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eddzzz
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Thanks Con, what a job ! :)

I would never imagine that one day this patch would be improved.
;)
You did it...
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Terra Branford
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Although I'm seriously biased here, I do have to say you did a bang up job on "Third Quest". Kudos!
I'm officially retired from beta testing, and resign my duties to those who have the time to do it.
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2awesome4apossum
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You did an outstanding job. I just about died when I saw this. No... I *did* die and got ressurected again so that I could play the game.

And I was very impressed with the inserting of the title screen. So it starts right off with a good, solid change. Then there are the character sprites... oh my gosh, and I died when I saw the improvements made to the various items in the game.

I do, however, have some suggestions. So I have to ask: is this a single patch, or were there several? Because there are a lot of features either removed or added that I felt unneccessary, personally. For one, I rather liked the timed elements, and while I know this is supposed to play like the NES game, it just makes it slightly less magical not to have the timed events.

[EDIT]Looks like there was several patches... I'll have to sort through them later.

And while it was refreshing to have a new "beginning credits" screen, couldn't it just be done away with, or would it be possible to now go and add those pictures from the BS Zelda video we saw with an (alternate) translation, if neccessary. Of course this gives much new hope to further patches in the "BS" Zelda faith.

I'm very impressed, I have tons of suggestions of room to improve, but the important part is that this patch is possibly the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. And that's saying something with BS Zelda. So I won't impose my suggestions, unless you'd like to hear them, because critisism is the last thing you deserve unwantingly with such an awesome patch.

Here's to the best site on the internet! :arr:
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Conn
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*hehe* got 2a4ap out of retirement ^_^

Many thanks for all the feedback :D

Now there are 4 patches used,

these are published at http://www.bszelda.zeldalegends.net/bs1files.shtml
- use classic characters (Link and Zelda)
- use triforce tiles
- use the time patch

-replace the title screen (not published, but part of the package at http://www.bszelda.zeldalegends.net/ce.shtml)


Of course you can send any suggestions you want, Duke already posts that he
-would like to have the monsters not returning every screen (not possible to hack with my skills)

- Master Sword (not really his colors)
- new Link (also not really his taste)
(any suggestions are welcomed, but I can't add new colors due to palette reasons, so if anybody finds a better solution with the existing colors, send me a png screenshot where you changed the graphics)

- select and start screen is a gap in the ivy where the timer was (yep, can handle this)
- select screen unnecessary - replace it with the one when you die (guess I can handle this)

Concerning the title screen, I guess I can help Duke with his restoration project, whereas the credit/intro is good as it is in my innovation project.

However, I must tell that it was a hard work to get knowledge of hacking and to develop the patches, so I just collect the suggestions right now and patch an upgrade after 6 month or even later. I am nearly burned out now and have a deeper understanding why Roto and DN left us...

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Duke Serkol
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Con,Mar 25 2007
01:28 PM
-replace the title screen (not published, but part of the package at http://www.bszelda.zeldalegends.net/ce.shtml

Actually shouldn't we post a separate patch for that? Maybe without the words Third Quest which can remain exclusive to the whole set (just throwing around ideas here).
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Conn
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Guess this is not possible, because this is a patch which inserts ~my~ title screen. Where Third Quest is fixed.
So, this name can't be replaced...

But if anybody likes to have his special title screen, I'll help of course :)

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Terra Branford
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I have to throw in my "two-cents" here.

Regarding the final sword... why is it being refered to now as the "Master Sword"? I can almost understand, since Con made the "Hyrule Shield" part of the game... but as this is supposed to be a "Third Quest" to LoZ, there would be no reason at all to call it, or show it, as being anything more than the Magical Sword. And if you look at the Magical Sword in LoZ, aside from the colors being a bit different, the shape is almost identical to the NES/GBA version. Plus, in keeping with Duke's timeline, the Master Sword would not be available at that point in time. Right? So I think the sword is perfect how it is. Heck, even Duke's translation patch called it the "Most powerful sword, The MAGICAL sword". NOT "The Master Sword". So of course the pallet would not match with the Master Sword... because this is obviously not the Master Sword. :P

As for the title screen... I'd have to say wait until it can be animated at a later (much later?) point in time, before adding it to other games. As it was specifically added to Third Quest to give it it's own unique appeal and appearance, we shouldn't be asking to use it for the REGULAR BS Zelda titles just yet. Plus seeing that it requires a change to the header to make it work just means more work for a tired patcher... am I right?

Last little spare change I throw in here, I at first was very against the appearance of the "New Link". I thought he looked too much like the Wind Waker Link... or like he belonged more in the "Secret of Mana" universe... but he grew on me. When Con first had me testing the patches, Link looked rather different... and I would not let him settle for a half-arsed appearance. The hair was a bone of contention between us for about a week there, but we had to settle on blond hair at the end, because... well brown hair and red hair (with the pallet limitations) looked UGLY. And I happen to think this Link sprite keeps closer to the appearance of LoZ/AoL Link in form, if not in hair.

Okay. Enough comments from me for now. :)
I'm officially retired from beta testing, and resign my duties to those who have the time to do it.
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Duke Serkol
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Tre,Mar 25 2007
08:15 PM
seeing that it requires a change to the header to make it work

It does?

About the Magic/Master Sword thing, you can tell that to Con, but he won't listen to reason :lol:
I told him it doesn't look like the Master Sword because he insists in calling it as such. Which is why he bothered changing it really, since (naturally) the Magical Sword we got in BS LoZ looks nothing like it and he wanted it to be the Master Sword, regardless of plot, canon and physical laws of the universe.
Same applies with the magic Book becoming the Book of Mudora (nevermind that it wasn't used to shoot flames in ALttP) :rotflmho:
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Conn
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Now... actually there was also no Hylian shield but a Large Shield in LoZ. But I already told duke that I bended the canon story to include known symbols and stuff.

On the Book of Mudora was also never a Triforce symbol... And actually... I don't care if it's good for translation or used to shoot fire. For me it is more book=book.

To the Master Sword thing... now I wanted to make it similar to the Master Sword. Therefore it also has a "W"-formed handle. That it doesn't match the original master sword in its colors is due to the color palette and pixel limitations.

Actually in ALTTP, which is in canon after OoT, the Master Sword looks entirely different from that used in OoT in the menu
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but a bit more similar when it is stucked in the stone
http://www.gameswelike.com/web/images/Zeld...nd%20notext.jpg

Maybe I'll make it a bit more similar to this one...

I could change the master/magic sword thing in the translation, but honestly: I do not really care. For most people the master/magical sword is so or so the same.

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coinilius
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Well, I was away for the weekend for work, so of course I should have expected another big update waiting for me when I got back :P It really does seem to happen every time :D

I'm at work at the moment, so I won't get a chance to check this out properly until later. Sounds like you've done some very nice work though, Con *thumbs up*
"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon."

"It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."

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Terra Branford
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Well, not to play devil's advocate, I still think it needs to remain called the "Magical Sword". That's just me. Regardless of the way the ALttP Master Sword looks like... which in that picture (minus color limitations of BS Zelda) looks very much like the one Con just made for the Third Quest. I would prefer to keep canon... but I guess with a Hylian Shield and the Book of Mudora involved, canon is out the window though. Ah well.

As for the header/title screen thing. Sure you could change the title in the header and rework the ips patch (with the expanded rom size from "low" to "hi") and everything else so the title would work correctly even in BS Zelda's map-1 and map-2... but that isn't quite the point, is it? :P

Either way, it's still a great addition to the series of Zelda titles. Regardless of the (minor) breaks in continuity and canon implied by items in the game now. ;)
I'm officially retired from beta testing, and resign my duties to those who have the time to do it.
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Conn
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I'll keep thinking of that Master/Magical sword thing. It is nice to have known symbols inside the game. Maybe I just make it even more similar to the master sword but keep the name magic sword. Means, like a hybrid.

The problem with the ingame-header is ~not~ the title screen.
Tre means the game's title. There is standing now "BS Zelda:Third Quest", what I'd like to have changed to "LoZ: Thrid Quest" or whatsoever.

But if you change "BS" the game won't load anymore in zsnes (but still snes9x). I guess this is due to Dreamer_Nom's BS-emulation rom (you know that thing where the mascots walk through BS-city.
This rom or parts of it (sorry I miss knowledge here) was adapted to zsnes' software, to emulate BS roms more accurately. It seems that zsnes searches the rom's ingame header and if it finds "BS" it will start a "special emulation mode" for BS games, so, if you change this "BS" in the header zsnes doesn't emulate this rom as a "BS rom" anymore, so it crashes :(

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Terra Branford
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I only complain about the implications of the Magical Sword becoming the Master Sword, because it was my understanding this was meant to be a restoration of Map-1 into a true Third Quest. But ultimately, it is up to you whether you'd want to keep it as the Magical Sword, or even call it "Bobo's Super Bat!".

I suppose I misunderstood what you were saying about how the ips tied the header's title to the expanded rom and the new title screen.

Of course, I could have gone the "obvious" route and said "Plus you'd have to change the title on the title screen to not say "Third Quest" if I really wanted to be a smarty. :P
I'm officially retired from beta testing, and resign my duties to those who have the time to do it.
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Conn
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Yep, I thought about the Master Sword/Magic Sword thing and came to an interesting thought... It is said at the end of ALTTP "and the master sword sleeps again... FOREVER!" or something like this.

Now... hehe... this is not true. If we regard AST as canon which plays after ALTTP, then the Master Sword obviously does not rest forever. It comes even better and the hero of light get's the L4 master sword which was upgraded by Link. And as far I know it is not said that the master sword sleeps forever at the end of AST.

So, I guess it is the same thing with the master sword as it is with Ganon: if it is needed it is reincarnated or whatever.

This means for me, that if I use the term "Master Sword" I bend only the 1st and 2nd quest, LoZ, NES a bit (like I did using the Hylian Shield instead of the Large Shield), but I do ~NOT~ break canon. :lol:
Any complains or arguments against?


Anyway, I tried to make the Magic Sword look a bit more like the Master Sword. The first row shows what is possible with the handle, the 2nd what is possible with the blade. Which one matches the Master Sword best and still looks good?

I am also very happy about further suggestion, means if anybody draws self a solution with those colors I used... and if a solution is so good that it will be in-gamed, there are still places in the credit screen below speacial thanx left... ;)

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