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| Interesting new take on the story | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 18 2009, 04:03 AM (1,048 Views) | |
| Vehiek | Jan 18 2009, 06:38 PM Post #16 |
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Sage
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I was talking about the transcriptions Glitterberri used to make the AST video translations. Chocomilk had them on his site, but his site seems to be gone now. |
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| Duke Serkol | Jan 18 2009, 07:19 PM Post #17 |
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Where'd that Princess go?
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The voice acting is differnt, the screens shown are the same.
Ah that he does... but was this perchance because we were confused and tried to come up with something that made sense? We did do that sometimes, I don't remember if this was one of those.
Buyt we don't know much about the star itself. It could have been created by the fortune teller. Or he could have hooked it up with the protagonist.
And that's precisely why MPS believes the first BS LoZ to be an illusionary artificial world.
Yeah, that's why I'm saying not to worry about the canon value of the BS games right now, but focus on their own stories for the moment. Once we have them figured out, we can see how they may interact with other games in the series.
Hehe, fair enough, but I wanted to hear the thoughts of others on the issue. And yeah, we definitely could use having the ending translated. Heck, we may want to include some of that in the intro-end patch... *is killed by Con who does not want to ever touch those again*
Chocomilk had transcripts of the intros we are missing in the videos? Interesting... |
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| Vehiek | Jan 18 2009, 07:27 PM Post #18 |
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Sage
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I was talking about the AST videos, not the BSLOZ videos. |
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| Duke Serkol | Jan 18 2009, 07:28 PM Post #19 |
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Where'd that Princess go?
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Ah, nevermind then, but yeah, the intros are different (though, I suppose not quite in their entirety). |
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| MikePetersSucks | Jan 18 2009, 10:49 PM Post #20 |
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Embarked on a Quest
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This is a flimsy argument when you take into consideration that the word that gets translated as "an" can also be read as "as".
For all we know, the fortune teller is the Guiding Star. We don't really know crap about it.
If the world is literally going to disappear, regardless of whether you save it or not, then I would hope that it's not real, or the Guiding Star is a monster. Also, keep in mind that if this world IS an illusion, it's basically a Genkai, the same existence as Spoiler: click to toggle , and therefore has precedent. Genkai, in Japanese mythology, are pockets of space where reality and illusion become simultaneous; time may flow differently, physics may be different, or it might be contained entirely within a cupboard, but the interior is the size of a kingdom. These are usually magical realms that are controlled by kitsune, onmyoji, or other such godlike forces and kami, and only exist for as long as the conjurer wills it, often compared to dreams and hallucinations as ultimately that's what they are, except they require physical transport there.
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| Conn | Jan 19 2009, 12:09 AM Post #21 |
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We call it life
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Welcome onboard ![]()
Well, I really think the broadcasting satellite is literally meant to be the guiding star that brings you into another world. This "star" weakens after one hour playtime... As for your hypothesis that the world is an illusion, like LA, I'd wonder about why you actually are transported there to save Zelda then... I do not really care so much about canon and don't remember the LA story so well, but wasn't your mission in LA to save the windfish, who makes dreams and thus also affect reality? Maybe we can get a better translation of the "like an illusion" or "as illusion". Though I dunno if we ever get a satisfying answer what BS-Loz actually is, but simply a remake of good old fashion NES-LOZ. |
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| MikePetersSucks | Jan 19 2009, 01:01 AM Post #22 |
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Embarked on a Quest
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That's most likely it, from a cute metafictional perspective, but in-universe, it could be anything.
Your mission in LA was basically to escape. The Windfish wasn't really in danger of anything except being unable to wake up, and Link really did so since he was also a dreamer. Irregardless, one theory I posited is that the Hero in both BS games are the same Hero of Light, and that the illusionary world, depending on how we interpret the fortune teller's character, was either a training thing of sorts before destiny kicked in and stranded her in LTTP-era Hyrule, or the Fortune Teller was trying to get rid of her early, in a sort of "If you die, you die for real" sort of thing. |
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| coinilius | Jan 19 2009, 01:03 AM Post #23 |
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Pickled in time, like gherkins in a jar
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Yeah, that was what I was just wondering about - since we have questions about the fortune teller scene, it would be interesting to know if there is any more to it in the other weeks. |
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"You must be talking about Heaven... or the moon." "It's a dog eat dog world... and there's not enough dog to go around."
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| KiddoCabbusses | Jan 19 2009, 01:46 AM Post #24 |
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The overly enthused BS-X nerd.
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Unusally harsh reaction there. :/ I didn't mean that one to come out like that - this conversation actually fits in a good amount better than anything Tuf Pic said. The smiley face is also a big-eyed exaggeration. Not that I'm not annoyed at how a lot of people seem to care more for trying to debate the canon than actually playing the games from which the "canon" would be generated, but considering there's some interesting tidbits about our translations that came out of this, it's been contributory enough that it more than makes up for that. I just expected my own thought there to completely kill it because the idea is rather baffling, and it's only the first of several obvious proofs St. Giga did not care for the Zelda canon as a whole, or even a "canon" in the sense of their own continuity. The service was meant to be fun, easy, and casual. I think we should try to remember some other things about this. Let's try to help put in the perspective. Around August 1995, Satelllaview purchasers get a treat from St. Giga - what would be the first "Soundlink" game. That's BS Zelda. It's prepared with the first of the special "Event Plaza" tents, and literally has the design of a tent reserved for an event. A player goes in here, sees the fortune teller - the fortune teller talks to the person as if selling the person a trip to a ride. He also breaks the fourth wall by talking about the "Present", which would be an actual physical prize from St. Giga. This present is brought up again at the end of every week. As well as the "Password". This amount of fourth-wall metatalk is a bit much for a standard canon Zelda. With this in mind, my proposal is - The Event Plaza tent is an entirely atmosphereic construct designed merely to give it's visitors competition. The Fortune Teller and the enemies are meant to be atmospheric - like people in costumes. At least to the player. The Guiding Star? Intended to be a play-on-words. It's the Satellite, people! more fourth-wall breaking! The world of Hyrule? Depends on if you'd think it's overwriting the NES Zelda canon or merely an illusion that's self-contained. Since St. Giga never thought that much into it, the obvious solution to this is "They did not care for the world of Hyrule itself, merely to provide the player entertainment." Other things to note; entry into any game is completely optional. Empathizing that, remember. At the end of the game, regardless of whether you win or lose, you're sent back into BS-X. The event has no ill effect on you other than "Ah, poo, I didn't get the high score!" - This is such in all Satelllaview downloads. It's hard to try to figure out how much more into it we could go - we're still missing information, after all. What if MAP2 has a different intro and Audio Broadcast? What about Satellawalker2, which has the decayed Plazas in it's ROM and the trivia question thingies? About how many in-jokes about Satellaview radio personalities, St. Giga, BS-X, or Japan-centric Nintendo may we have missed? And if BS Zelda is mentioned, expanded upon, etc.? ion other Satellaview radio programs, games, etc.? |
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| Duke Serkol | Jan 19 2009, 02:20 AM Post #25 |
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Where'd that Princess go?
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This is now my official favorite word. Anyway, like Con said, welcome to the board MPS, and congrats on an awesome first post ![]() If we presume the Fortune Teller was actually evil (and I do), can you think of some explanation for why the illusionary experience is allowed to have a happy ending? (Rather than making the odds impossible or "cheating" by hanging them). Other than the real world explanation "the game would blow", of course ![]()
Ah, well in that case, I apologize about the outburst.
It certainly is, and I said in my first post that my initial reaction too was a "WTF? Where does he get this?", but as MPS went on to explain his reasons to believe so, I found that it definitely deserves to be considered as a possible (plausible and not baseless) interpretation.
Which is why I keep suggesting to leave canon out of this debate and only focus on the individual game. Or games if we consider also AST, but I think we should be able to determine if this is an illusionary world or not regardless of the eventual follow up.
...with skulls hanging on it?
Interesting... but wouldn't the act of hiding be a clear attempt to convey something plot related?
Which is what we are discussing here ![]()
Well obviously. Would you expce the system to tell you "Your character died, your data will now be erased. Nonetheless we hope you will register again. Just try to live your BS-X life more carefully next time" Yeah, we are missing information... but that has never got us to give up in the past, has it? |
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| KiddoCabbusses | Jan 19 2009, 02:51 AM Post #26 |
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The overly enthused BS-X nerd.
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I've seen tons of events with Skulls around them. Take my word for it. :E I eman, jeez, the Hot Topic store is full fo skully-merchandise. As for the "hiding" and the other things, remember that the actions and statements on the program are just as much directed at the player as to his avatar. It is apparent that St. Giga treats them as one and the same, so they put in a "creepy" visual effect to make you wonder what the heck was up before you got into Hyrule. Or, if we assume the player didn't really know what "BS Zelda" was up until he started playing, they would be intended as teasers. As for the BS-X save file deleting - careful, you know some online service is gonna have that next. >_> lol. But really, it was meant to convey how there was no "risk" in playing BS Zelda or any other Satellaview game, from the perspective of the player. |
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| Duke Serkol | Jan 19 2009, 02:56 AM Post #27 |
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Where'd that Princess go?
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So won't you agree that they are there to make us wonder why they are? And that this would mean the Fortune Teller is somehow tricking the starring character/player into falling for some evil plan (which then either fails or actually backfires).
So long as they give us our share for intellectual rights :lol: |
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| MikePetersSucks | Jan 19 2009, 03:32 AM Post #28 |
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Embarked on a Quest
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Probably for the same reason fairy tale curses require an escape clause. |
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| Duke Serkol | Jan 19 2009, 04:18 AM Post #29 |
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Where'd that Princess go?
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Very good answer ![]() I guess that now, all there was to say has been said, until we get moar translations. |
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| KiddoCabbusses | Jan 19 2009, 04:53 AM Post #30 |
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The overly enthused BS-X nerd.
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The one conclusion doesn't immediately lead into the other, mind you. In fact, they aren't well related. As for a "trick", it only appears that way when you think of only the visuals and forget the audio or the context - remember 1) The player sees the tent and freely chooses to go in or not. In the meantime, BS Zelda ads were playing just minutes prior. 2) The dialog is directed at the player moreso than the avatar (The fourth-wall breaking makes this obvious). Also, one othe thing. Why would the "Guiding Star" (therefore being assumed to be the Satellite) cooperate with a suspicious being like the fortune teller if the FT was evil, while the Satellite supplied you with powerups and hints? |
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9:17 AM Jul 11