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Get in Chris Houlihan's room constantly!; 100% reproductible! Yay!
Topic Started: Feb 16 2009, 07:59 AM (2,692 Views)
MadHatter
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That is pretty funny. I completely missed that connection although technically I think it would be Harry Potter that's ripping of Zelda then, because ALttP predates Harry P.

In other news, I got curious what the room in called in other versions, so I tested the official European release (also in English) and lo and behold it's the Chris Houlihan Room there as well. What a real mystery that woul dhave been for any Europeans who entered the contest. They hadn't even been invited to participate in the event.

I also checked out a few other language versions.

Here's the official French version. I tried the official French Canadian version, but it's exactly the same apart from being a bit less fadey. You'll see what I mean. Anyway here's the French "Chris Houlihan Room" or "la pièce la plus secrète" (The most secret room).
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MadHatter
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And here's the "Chris Houlihan Room" in the official German release where it's known as "der ganz geheimes Zimmer" (the very secret Room) (or perhaps... the top secret Room)
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coinilius
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Nice work, Madhatter :)
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MadHatter@ Feb 1 2010
09:20 PM
That is pretty funny. I completely missed that connection although technically I think it would be Harry Potter that's ripping of Zelda then, because ALttP predates Harry P.


Indeed!!

Glad we share the same sense of humor, MadHatter!! ;)
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MadHatter
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Thanks, coin and Tuf. :)

I guess I'm more or less finished with this investigation. But as a final though, and to tie up a few last loose ends:

I've investigated this phenomenon thoroughly and can now conclude definitively that this is a glitch. I've been able to access the C.H. Room from the hole in the garden, from the upper-left-most tombstone in the cemetery, from the hole under the bush to the east of the graveyard before the bridge, and even in the pyramid in the dark world. The fact of so many entrances to the lends strong credence to the idea that this is nothing more than a failsafe. "No, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus." :( Anyway, the glitch is easy to reproduce and I can get to this room now at will.

Here are the rules:
1 - Priming the Glitch - to cause the glitch to work, you must make an improper transition between two screens. That is to say, you must make a transition that the game considers improper. Just like the well-known "Exploration Mode" glitches that occur when Link enters a screen backward (achieved by pressing up and down simultaneously), in this case the processor will become corrupted if you enter a screen too far into it. By this I mean that the processor apparently notices your position at the point of a screen exchange and if you're starting in the new screen at a place where you shouldn't be, then it glitches. Here the idea is to begin the new screen at a point that is too far into it. This glitch also only occurs in a North-South transition and only when the player is going Southward.
1a - The Strict Dash method - With the Pegasus Boots equipped, the Link sprite moves at 4 pixels per frame during a dash. The critical trick to making the dash method work is the player's position at the point of starting the Southern dash. If the last position that the Link sprite is in before exiting the screen is within the last 2 pixels of the screen, then the 4-pixel advancement will position the player "too far" into the new screen thus triggering the glitch. Because this relies on where the player starts dashing from, it produces extremely variable results and only succeeds on average half of the time. This has led to the widely accepted and false idea that it is the player's speed which determines whether or not his entry into the C.H. Room will be successful. This is a false notion. I have walked around slowly after priming the glitch and have still managed to get to the C.H. room.
1b - The Push-Dash method - This method is guaranteed to work every time. The trick here is to push yourself as close to the Southern-border screen-transition line as possible. This can be accomplished either just south of the U-shaped copse of trees (south of the Woodcutters) or just north of the field of stones to the east of the castle by ramming the southernmost "U of trees" or the wall next to the river (a tributary to Lake Hylia) depending on your start location. This will position you as close as possible to the screen-transition line. At this point, the player will be on the Southern-most border and the player's back will face South. From this position the player must start to dash, but before the Link sprite moves, he must use the D-pad to face Southward. As Link is within the last 2 pixels of the edge, the first step of the dash will put him "too far" into the new screen and the glitch will be primed. In other areas, such as just north of the forest to the west of the castle, there is nothing to ram into to put the player at the proper position. This can be remedied by placing a bomb in such a position as to blow the player's back against the North-South transition line. The Southward dash must then be performed as just described a few lines ago. An alternative to the bomb technique which can save you a half-heart is to attract an enemy swordsman and clank swords with him until you are pushed back as far as you'll go. The swordsman can then be killed and the Southward Dash performed as above.
2 - Walking to Chris Houlihan's Room - With the glitch primed, the player can now walk casually to any hole and jump in. Doors, caves, holes with staircases built in, and some of the more elaborate holes will not work, however all of the holes I listed above I guarantee will definitely work because I have verified this. NOTE: There are ways for the glitch to lose its priming, so skip to point #5 if you've failed to gain access.
3 - Chris Houlihan's Room - after falling into the room and collecting the 45 blue rupies, the player should read the placard and muse over the fact that Nintendo gave Mr. Houlihan the biggest booby prize of them all - his name in the error screen. Almost seems like a private joke by the programmers who probably weren't delighted by having to put this kid's name into their work of art. It is now time to exit the room.
4 - Link's Uncle's House - On exiting the C.H. Room, Link will ALWAYS find himself in his Uncle's house in the Light World. This is true even if you have entered the C.H. Room from the Pyramid in the Dark World. Interesting that Chris Houlihan's room provides a direct connection between Ganon's Lair and Link's Bedroom. Almost poetic, isn't it?
5 - Unpriming the Glitch - The glitch can easily be reset in a number of ways.
5a - Exiting the Overworld Too Early - The first is to enter a house or a cave or any other structure that takes the player out of the overworld. Once the glitch is primed, to get into the C.H. Room, the player must directly enter the hole that will take him there. Presumably entering the Dark World from the Light World or vice-versa will also dispell the magic.
5b - Going North - If the player ever makes a South-to-North screen transition, then the spell will be broken, and the glitch will lose its priming. This does NOT mean, however, that a player can never touch the Up button on the controller. Within each screen, the player may move about freely and may kill enemies, be harmed, lift stones, waste time, and exit East, West, or South. It is only exiting to the North that will break the spell. What this means for the C.H. Room is that there are only a limited number of places where it will be possible to enter. The glitch-priming transition must be North of the hole so this excludes all holes in the cells in the top row and any holes in cells that can only be accessed via a southern route.
5c - Entering the Hole from the North - The hole that is jumped into must never be entered from the North side or the spell will be broken. All other directions will work.
5d - Walking Too Far - If you walk too far from glitch-priming transition, the spell will fade away. The glitch-inducing transition just south of the U of Trees, for instance, will only work in one place that I know of: the hole to the east of the graveyard before the bridge. I'm not sure about the details concerning this method of depriming, because as far as I can see it has nothing to do with the number of screens you pass through.
6 - The Secret of the Cemetery - There is one other technique which can be used to glitch your way into the C.H. Room. I'm not sure why this alternate technique works, but it's perhaps the simplest way to access the C.H. Room even if it is less reliable. Here the idea is to blast yourself into a hole using a bomb or an enemy. I can only verify one place where it works, and I'm almost certain it doesn't work in places like the top of the Pyramid in the Dark World since I must have tried it there some 50 or 60 times in a row. I have also only gotten this trick to work by starting at the Sanctuary and dashing across the West-to-East border. So it's possible that this is just a variation on the North-to-South screen-transition glitch discussed above.

To review, here are a few Specific Techniques that are widely reported online.
I still haven't verified the techniques with asterisks (*'s) next to them:
A) Traditional Method - Exit Kakiriko village North, dash east and south into the forest, pass through it east, dash in front of the castle and dive down the hole in the garden. This is a popular version of the Strict Dash Method (1a). It was the first technique I ever used on hardware to get in. It is the method that used to be hosted at eeggs.com. The magical glitching screen-change occurs at the point of entrance into the forest west of the castle (if you're lucky...).
B ) Simplified Method - Exit the Sanctuary, dash west and south into the forest, pass through it east, dash in front of the castle and dive down the hole in the garden. This is another popular version of the Strict Dash Method (1a). This is the version currently listed at eeggs.com. The magical glitching screen-change again occurs at the point of entrance into the forest west of the castle (if you're lucky...).
*C) French Method - Exit the sanctuary, dash east in front of the graveyard and over the bridge, dash south west and enter the field of stones, dash west to the castle, lift the huge boulder and dash north to dive down the hole in the garden. This is a version of the Strict Dash Method (1a) that is popular on various French websites. The magical glitching screen-change in this technique occurs at the point of entrance into the field of stones east of the castle (if you're lucky...).
D) Forest Push Method - Start with your back to the northern border to the forest west of the castle. Using a bomb, blow yourself as close to the screen-transition line as possible. Start a dash and, before Link moves, turn the sprite to face South. Dash south. This primes the glitch and the player can now walk casually to the hole on the east side of the castle. The hole must be entered from the South. This is a popular version of the Push-Dash Method (1b) that is described at the Strategy Wiki. The magical glitching screen-change in this technique occurs at the point of entrance into the field of stones east of the castle.
E) Stone Field Push Method - Start with your back to the northern border of the field of stones East of the Castle. Dash at and ram the wall just in front of you next to the river to bounce yourself as close to the screen-transition line as possible. Start a dash and, before Link moves, turn the sprite to face South. Dash south. This primes the glitch and the player can now walk casually to the hole on the east side of the castle. The hole must be entered from the South. This is another version of the Push-Dash Method (1b). Sadly I can't recall where I saw this method described first. The magical glitching screen-change in this technique occurs at the point of entrance into the field of stones east of the castle.
F) Tombstone Method - Exit the sanctuary, dash immediately east and push the upper-left-most stone in the graveyard out of the way without falling in, then with your back to the hole place a bomb in such a way as to blast Link into the hole. This is a different glitch method I described in point (6) above. It is described at numerous French websites. The glitch appears to occur within the very screen itself or possibly at the West-to-East screen transition to the east of the Sanctuary. Don't quote me on that...
G) Fairy Cave Method - Exit the sanctuary, dash west and then north toward the woodchoppers' house. At the U of Trees, ram into the southern-most tree such that your back is bounced against the Southern border. Start a dash and, before Link moves, turn the sprite to face South. Dash south. Now dash east back toward the Sanctuary, dash further east in front of the cemetary and, just before the bridge, dash north to a single bush. Dive down the hole beneath the bush. This is yet another version of the Push-Dash Method (1b). Again, sadly I can't recall where I saw this method described first. The magical glitching screen-change in this technique occurs just south of the U of Trees.
H) Pyramid Method (AKA Cyber Predator's Method) - Start with your back to the northern border of the field of stones East of the Pyramid in the Dark World. Dash at and ram the wall just in front of you next to the river to bounce yourself as close to the screen-transition line as possible. Start a dash and, before Link moves, turn the sprite to face South. Dash south. Dash west to the castle and dash into the hole at the top of the pyramid. The hole must be entered from the South. On exiting the C.H. Room, Link will emerge from Link's House in the Light World (!). This is a Dark World version of the Push-Dash Method (1b). The magical glitching screen-change in this technique occurs at the point of entrance into the field of stones east of the castle. The Pyramid Method is considered the first method to have ever been used (it was discovered by a player called Cyber Predator in 1993), but it has proven to be extremely difficult if not impossible to reproduce. I think this is currently the only place online that explains how to get this to work. Lucky BS Zelda Homepage. You get to hear it rediscovered first! :P

Notes
F)The Tombstone Method in particular seems to have potential as a way to test if BSZ:AST has any sort of failsafe. I have tried it over and over again in AST week 4, however I have had no success. Another idea would be to compile a list of holes that are accessible by North-to-South passages.


Rumors Dispelled
In my quest to find Chris Houlihan's name written in ink in a Nintendo Power magazine, I've found rumors that the contest was actually a Players Pulse contest from 1992 (instead of the WarMech Challenge from 1991). I have examined the Players Pulse sections from Nintendo Power volumes 32 (Jan 1992) through 35 (April 1992) without finding anything. since the game came out in April 13, 1992, it would be silly to check further than the April edition. If the contest was really a Players Pulse contest, it would have to be before 1992 and at least after Volume 20 (Jan 1991) because there was no Players Pulse section in Volume 20 or prior. I really doubt there's anything relating to Chris Houlihan in these unchecked volumes, but if anyone else wants to give it a look, I still haven't examined Volumes 21 (Feb 1991) through 31 (Dec 1991), so according to this already partially dispelled rumor the contest may lie somewhere there in the Players Pulse section. Personally I think Volume 16's WarMECH Challenge is the actual answer.

Final Thoughts
I'd also be interested in seeing a screenshot of the GBA version of the room as well as any others if anyone has time on their hands.
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MasterOfPuppets
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The room was renamed of the GBA port to the "Top Secret Room", and is very difficult to get into without emulation.
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/NintendoRepairs
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MadHatter
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Can someone post a screenshot? I have no GBA emulator...
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MadHatter
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I'll conclude that AST has probably avoided the issue simply by a more clever layout. First of all they've replaced most simple holes with these complex staircase holes. As far as I know these more complex holes aren't susceptible to the glitch.

Of the few simple holes that remain, the best 2 examples are both inaccessible from the north:

Posted Image
The forest hole is in the top row of cells, so you can never make the required North-to-South screenchange to trigger the glitch.

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The square of holes is in the Level 1 Complex which is all one screen and which is bounded at the North by an impenetrable wall, so there's no way to make a North-to-South entrance.

The only other possible contenders are two wells and a grave.
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North of the Kakariko town well, there is a place where you can do the Push Dash Method to make a glitchy North-to-South screen transition, but I've never managed to make it work for me... Perhaps wells are too fancy a hole (like I described in point #2 of the guide I made). The same problem comes up when I try the Blacksmiths' well (see attachment at the bottom).

Finally we still have the old upper-left-most gravestone...
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I have tried the bombing trick (described in point #6 of the guide I made) over and over again and still no luck. I'm beginning to think it may be impossible here.

Am I missing any holes in AST?

There's still the brute force technique of trying to trigger an "Exploration Mode" glitch and searching for it in the maps around the Sanctuary, but I don't think my emulator will let me do this trick sadly...
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MadHatter
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MadHatter,Feb 3 2010
12:03 AM
Can someone post a screenshot? I have no GBA emulator...
GBA C.H. Room Screenshots are available here:
(top of the room) and (bottom of the room)

Sadly they both have watermarks, but the French site they come from is better than most English sites on the topic. The only problem is that they don't know how to get to the C.H. Room via the Pyramid of Power in the Dark World. If anyone is interested I have freezestates that can be loaded where the player can access the C.H. Room via the Pyramid easily. But honestly, after the instruction guide I provided I'd prefer if people tried the technique I outlined a few times first...

I wonder if Garrett ever made any headway in his search for the Houlihan Room in AST. He listed it as part of his to do list on the FAQ he wrote...
Garrett, if you're reading this, I'd say your best bet is to try the gravestone trick or just use the "Exploration Mode" glitch outlined in the ALttP Glitch FAQ around the rooms of the Sanctuary.
Also, like Duke said it would probably just be an empty room that doesn't look very much like the room we're used to with rupies and a placard.
It's also quite possible it doesn't exist at all in AST.
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SmashManiac
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You sure know your stuff, MadHatter! B)


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MadHatter
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I just put together a couple of .SMV runthroughs recorded off SNES9X. I have videos and savestates for:
1)The Simplified ("Push") Traditional Method - The video for this one is deliberately slow to show you that you don't have to do any top speed running or anything like that.
2)The Cemetery Method
3)The Fairy Cave Method
4)The Pyramid Method

I also recorded .SMVs (without savestates) for:
5)The Traditional ("Dash") Method
6)Cyber Predator's Original Method (It's a Dash version of the Pyramid Method)
and
7)A silly video with Link starting in his house in the Light World, running directly to the Dark World, triggering the CH Room and exiting his house again int he Light World.

I've never made videos before, and I found the process really difficult to use. It seems to just memorize keystrokes and then the whole thing goes to hell if you trigger anything random like if you get hurt by an enemy and it throws you back. If it throws you off course, the whole rest of the video is ruined because it only memorizes your keystrokes. I wonder if that's the source of the completely false rumor that the CH Room cannot be accessed if you ever get hit by an enemy. Definitely a strange video-recording system... Anyway I think I have pretty clear videos now.

If anybody has any trouble replicating the methods I described, PM me and I can email the videos, etc.
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MadHatter,Feb 3 2010
05:57 PM
Garrett, if you're reading this, I'd say your best bet is to try the gravestone trick or just use the "Exploration Mode" glitch

That todo dates back long before the walls patch even existed, so at that point it was not known what remained. I had been able to successfully glitch the ALttP world map back into AST(!) so at the time it was quite plausible that the Chris Houlihan Room might be accessible as well.
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MadHatter,Feb 8 2010
02:31 AM
It seems to just memorize keystrokes and then the whole thing goes to hell if you trigger anything random like if you get hurt by an enemy and it throws you back. If it throws you off course, the whole rest of the video is ruined because it only memorizes your keystrokes.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that you can't actually go back in time while recording in order to correct a mistake?

If that's the case, you'll need an emulator which supports rerecording. Some custom Snes9X emulators actually supports that.

You have a Mac, right? You can find one here, along with a funny video of Kaizo Mario World:
:link: Super Mario World vs. the Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Physics


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MadHatter
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Garrett,Feb 8 2010
08:45 AM
MadHatter,Feb 3 2010
05:57 PM
Garrett, if you're reading this, I'd say your best bet is to try the gravestone trick or just use the "Exploration Mode" glitch

That todo dates back long before the walls patch even existed, so at that point it was not known what remained. I had been able to successfully glitch the ALttP world map back into AST(!) so at the time it was quite plausible that the Chris Houlihan Room might be accessible as well.

Unless someone's tried the "Exploration Mode" glitch in AST and found no CH Room, I don't think we can rule out the idea that something like it exists in AST. It's not terribly likely, though. Is there a more up to date version of the walkthrough?

SmashManiac,Feb 8 2010
09:09 AM
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that you can't actually go back in time while recording in order to correct a mistake?

If that's the case, you'll need an emulator which supports rerecording. Some custom Snes9X emulators actually supports that.

You have a Mac, right? You can find one here, along with a funny video of Kaizo Mario World:
:link: Super Mario World vs. the Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Physics

The files I created (.SMV files) are actual recordings. To play them, you have to launch the game in SNES9x, then pause it and select play movie and choose the clip from the list. The thing is, some of them I had to re-record like 20 times because the resulting recording I got didn't match the reality that I'd witnessed with my own eyes.

The problem comes up whenever there's a random event like getting hurt by an enemy or chopping a bush and having an enemy (like a castle guard) come out. Whereas in reality, I'd be hurt and the attack would bounce me back to position (X1, Y1), in the recording it appears they would run their own random generator on the same attack and so in the recording I'd be bounced to position (X2, Y2). From that point on, depending on how badly off course the sprite was, he'd either proceed in more-or-less the correct direction until he finally ended up doing something stupid and failing or he'd immediately start to fail and would just pathetically push his face against trees, chop at enemies that aren't there, and unsuccessfully try to replicate the same walking directions I'd actually done.

Another variation of the problem would come up if I did somethig as simple as to chop a bush in the castle courtyard. Whereas in actual reality the bush had turned into a rupee that I had collected and continued on, in the recording the bush would have a hidden castle guard randomly pop out instead of a rupee. When I went to "collect the rupee" as in real life, the recording version would have the sprite try to collect the guard. Obviously this doesn't work, so the guard would just mercilessly attack the sprite and sent him terribly off-course even though you could see that the Sprite still thought he was on the original path as recorded by me.

Weirdly, the videos seem to be static so the same random events occur each time. The only problem is they're not the random events I encountered when making the videos. So in one of my "final version" videos, for instance, you can see me chop a bush in the castle which actually had contained a hidden castle guard in my actual run-through, and then I loop around and kill the guard, and then I keep walking. Well in the recorded version, no guard ever comes out of that bush so you just see the sprite chop the bush and then loop around and slash at the air a few times. So to reiterate, the video that results is often absolutely different from the reality that I'd experienced while making the recording. I'm not sure why this happens. I'm just speculating that to save space the video only memorizes keystrokes and them plays them out across a new game from the same start point. I guess that wouldn't explain the fact that the "final versions" I have don't seem to redo the random events each time differently though... Who knows?

I'll look into converting the SMVs to MOVs, but I can't guarantee anything. My emulator actually purports to allow me to do this, but it simply doesn't work. I have the "Export to QuickTime" function, but as soon as I try to pause the emulator to load the SMV, it crashes. If I try to record a MOV from scratch, I get a MOV file in the end that's about the right size to be a real .mov, but it refuses to play in QuickTime or even VLC... I've gone through the Kaizo Mario World guy's instructions that you linked to the letter (i.e. record MOV with codecs set to "none" and with "Millions of colors+" checked) but still no luck. Maybe it's because I'm using version 1.51 instead of 1.43... Anyway I'll try some third party SMV converters first...

Do any of you guys out there use SNES9X? Do non-Mac versions allow you to play movies?
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SmashManiac
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I've never seen anything that bad happen to me on Windows. Yes, SMV files are just keystrokes recordings (along with an initial save state if it applies), but since the game generates pseudorandom numbers, they should be the same every time. Maybe it's a bug in the Mac version?

Also, 1.51 movies are incompatible with 1.43 movies and vice-versa. I know that generally 1.43 has less desync problems, so maybe it would help.


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