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Back Ground Graphics go above Char; possible bug
Topic Started: Aug 8 2011, 03:55 PM (5,327 Views)
RX_79
Embarked on a Quest
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but when playing week 1, I noticed that when you move down stairs. The stairs sometimes go over the top of your character.

And when you pick up the pots and move in front of the torches. The Torch goes over the pot.

Is anyone else experiencing this bug?
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Conn
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The stairs are well known, it has something to do with Euclid's code to display the indoors; he's gone and I hardly see a chance for this to ever being fixed. However there's also good news: after a while of playing you'll get used to it.

The torches over pots is new for me, but I guess the message is the same. :(

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SmashManiac
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Legend
Thanks for the report RX_79! :)

Yeah we were already aware of that. I think the top of the torches are on the same layer than the stairs, which would make these 2 bugs related.


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RX_79
Embarked on a Quest
Man that's sad, Wish I knew alot about rom hacking. Are there still plans to combine all four weeks into one rom?
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SmashManiac
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It would probably be easier to reprogram the entire game from scratch than to merge all 4 weeks in one ROM, so unfortunately no. -_-


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Conn
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There's a lot of stuff do-able with Hyrule Magic. Maybe somebody can send a list to the programmers of stuff available in AST which isn't there in ALTTP and they make them available also in Hyrule Magic. Then it maybe would work to hack AST out of an ALTTP rom.

But I further think the hype about ALTTP is almost over and the programmers of Hyrule Magic hardly want to spend this effort.
However, I know it sounds strange and the renaming of srm files is sort of complicated, but this is also a different gaming experience and one can also like to have 4 different roms (games) combined over srm. This is unique as far as I know.

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JamesBond007
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Con,Aug 8 2011
04:15 PM
The stairs are well known, it has something to do with Euclid's code to display the indoors; he's gone and I hardly see a chance for this to ever being fixed. However there's also good news: after a while of playing you'll get used to it.

The torches over pots is new for me, but I guess the message is the same.  :(

I have very interesting news for you, Con. :)

This well-known stair bug appears to be not related to Euclid's Indoor patch at all! I made an experiment with ASTDE editor to remove some indoor objects from one room and test the stairs. The results are on my pictures. ;)

Upper left - some objects removed, stair bug still happens.
Lower left - full indoors, normal gameplay with stair bug.
Upper right - full indoors, Background 1 deactivated on Snes9x (ASTDE identifies this as BG2).
Lower right - full indoors, Background 2 deactivated on Snes9x (ASTDE identifies this as BG1).

Well, I found the source of this bug - on Snes9x, the stairs (as in-game object) are visible on both BG1 and BG2. The solution - the stairs must not be visible if BG1 is deactivated, but they still must be functional.

The "pot/torch" bug sounds similar, but I will check it out later. Maybe tomorrow?
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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Conn
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I think it is possible to draw the stair cases on one bg only using the editor. One can maybe delete the stair case on BG2.
If this helps avoiding this bug I see a hell lot of work coming up to Duke :P
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Attachments: AST_Stair_Bug.jpg (79.44 KB)

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JamesBond007
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Sage
I found more interesting news today. :)

By patching week 1 rom with only the base patch, using time cheats to leave the first room, and running two sessions of AST (one without indoors, and one normal), I made it to the same room with stairs. And here is the results:

This stair bug appears to be present in the original dump. Even without any indoors, this bug still happens (lower left). Deactivating BG2 shows everything right (upper right).

Unfortunately, second bug with pots and torches might not be related to this. Lower left image shows the bug, but after deactivating BG2, both floor and torches are invisible (lower right). @_@

Also, I have one question about the indoors. In every week except w1, rooms 113 and 114 (green house in Kakariko Village, former Blind's Hideout) uses ALttP palette, but in the original broadcast, this palette was different (kinda green). Why it was changed?
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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SmashManiac
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Legend
It is a fact that the stairs bug did not originally occur though, as it is not present in the original broadcast videos.

Also, I believe I tried in the past to remove the top layer of stairs in Euclid's editor without success.

Can you show us a comparative screenshot of rooms 113 and 114 between the original broadcast and the current palette JamesBond007?
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JamesBond007
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Here you are, SmashManiac. First two upper images are from room 113, first two lower are from room 114, and images on the right shows pots behind a wall in room 114. These images are from week 2, but I think this applies also to week 3 and 4.

I know that indoor patch changes palette in these rooms, because opening the original dump in the editor (with only base patch applied) shows correct palette in these rooms.
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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SmashManiac
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Legend
Nice find! I watched the videos multiple times and I didn't notice myself! :)
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JamesBond007
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Maybe I could fix the palette (but not the stair bug :( ) by making the indoors from scratch. Sounds very difficult, and possible it is. :)
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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Duke Serkol
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Where'd that Princess go?
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No, no you can't... and I can explain this one.

You have to keep in mind, when we made the editor and indoor patch, we did not have videos of the original broadcast. So naturally when we started filling out that room and found ourselves with green tables, we freaked out.
Given how messed up our dumps where (like you know, missing the indoor layouts for the entire game), we came to the simple conclusion that this had to be some weird glitch.
After all, the house is identical in every detail to the way it was in ALttP... why would it change all of its colors inbetween the events of the two games? So Euclid painstakingly figured out how to change the room's palette and coded this in the indoor patch himself.

So yeah, the editor won't let you change the palette of the room. The only way you could do that, would be redoing the entire indoor patch from scratch... and even then you'd end up missing some very real and necessary fixes that Euclid did (like the inverted ladders in week 4's mole cave), which would end up doing more harm than good.

Personally though, I think it's perfectly okay the way it is. I mean honestly, who has green wood tables? It probably IS just a bug that went undetected by the programmers (like the missing Magic Shield animation in the other BS Zelda).

Rather what annoyed me at the time was that we couldn't restore the light coming in from the windows (as it did in ALttP) but that too wa clearly not in the original broadcast so meh (and come to think of it, wouldn't make much sense for light to pour in while there's a storm outside. Unless in those times it only shined brifly as if cast by thunders which would be pretty sweet, but that's not gonna happen).
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SmashManiac
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Duke Serkol,Aug 15 2011
01:30 PM
Personally though, I think it's perfectly okay the way it is. I mean honestly, who has green wood tables? It probably IS just a bug that went undetected by the programmers (like the missing Magic Shield animation in the other BS Zelda).

I think the main concern is not that this bug from the original game is fixed, but that we don't know why it happened in the first place, so we can't perfectly restore the game even if we wanted to.

And by the way it's entirely possible that the Magic Shield animation was removed on purpose. ;)


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