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My timeline; Attempting to fit the BS games in
Topic Started: Jan 12 2013, 08:03 PM (4,924 Views)
joesteve1914
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Here's my newest timeline:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/ld3m6
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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Conn
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I would say it's either just a "what if" scenario or an offshot timeline, not a parallel dimension (that would presumably be something like Termina, quite different from Hyrule) nor a different era (what are the odds of the same identical events playing out twice in one timeline?)

A "what if"scenario isn't a bad idea, this also fits with Joesteve's interpretation that Link was defeated.
However in this case I'd link it to Zelda, NES, instead of the oracle series, like:
In case Link was defeated by Ganon in "The Legend of Zelda", the hero of light has to be called again since he also helped out yet years before in AST.

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JamesBond007
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Hey JS, have you ever played Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) on the Game Boy? Prince Richard from this game made an appearance in Link's Awakening. His villa's theme is a slowed-down version of the FTFTBT's Overworld theme. Although it's just a cameo, like Goombas and Kirby, the ending cutscene gave me an idea - this game fits as a prequel to LA, because I can imagine the destination of Richard's journey after he left the Sable Kingdom.

Oh, and one more thing. One of the monsters in this game looks and behaves almost like Moldorm.
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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Duke Serkol
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joesteve1914,Jan 16 2013
05:53 PM
Here's my newest timeline:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/ld3m6

I see the argument that the two BS Zeldas shouldn't happen in the same timeline convinced you. Personally I liked your previous placement of BS LoZ better, especially since, if the split off occurs before the Zelda of AoL is put into eternal sleep... what happened then to the Triforce of Courage that is conspicously missing from BS LoZ? I guess those same events could have happened on both branches, but since the one where they ought to have happened differently (the Trifrce of Courage sealed away without the Zelda of that time being cursed) is that which leads to the cartoon, maybe you should switch them around.
Also, considering the Triforce of Wisdom is whole in the cartoon, Zelda was probably never kidnapped to begin with (maybe Link foiled it and that's why he's tasked with protecting the Triforce?)

I'm sorry to report several possible mistakes on the TWW timeline branch. Firstly Navi Trackers, if it happens at all, would be set during TWW, because the King of Red Lions is still with Link (as well as other characters like Aryll).
Tingle Balloon Fight may happen around the same time (the Tingle Tower from TWW is featured in the game), shortly before or after TWW, but the actual Tingle games likely happen generations later (presumably long after Spirit Tracks even) as the Deku Tree's centuries long plan to grow more land seems to be bearing fruit (pun intended).
It has to be said though, that the people who made the Tingle games stated they had no knowledge of nor care for the timeline... and though it is an evident fact that there's a lot more land around the Deku Tree in this game (and generally larger islands than in TWW) this could be entirely unintentional.
Of one thing I'm certain though: the Tingle Towers in TWW and Tingle's own game are completely different.


...in before "lol smash bros".

Con,Jan 16 2013
06:31 PM
In case Link was defeated by Ganon in "The Legend of Zelda", the hero of light has to be called again since he also helped out yet years before in AST.

Do you mean Link would be killed off at the start of his quest? Because I don't think Ganon would split the Triforce of Wisdom (or let Zelda do it once more) and put it into eight dungeons.
It seems much better to me to just go with Impa never running into Link.

JamesBond007,Jan 16 2013
06:35 PM
it's just a cameo

That's all which needs to be said on this one :P

Soul Calibur II would be more deserving of inclusion than either that or Smash Bros really (especially when Brawl makes it unquestionably clear that the characters are just trophies come to life, not their real selves).
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Conn
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Do you mean Link would be killed off at the start of his quest? Because I don't think Ganon would split the Triforce of Wisdom (or let Zelda do it once more) and put it into eight dungeons.
It seems much better to me to just go with Impa never running into Link.

I mean it like Link starts and was killed by the first octoroc crossing his way because he was too stupid to get into the first cave picking up the sword.
Therefore, the old man remembered that some time ago in AST the hero of light from earth was called to help out while Link was sleeping.
So all the triforce are still hidden and Zelda still imprisoned. This time, to make not the same mistake again the old man used his magic to automatically lead the mascot into the cave to meet him and offer the sword. And he further uses his magic book to aid even more.

Being more serious; for me this makes more sense than an "what if Link never-situation": using this way it even can be canoned. Only however, if we follow the alternating splitting JS demonstrates after OoT in his pic- Hero is successful or fails.

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joesteve1914
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Hey JS, have you ever played Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) on the Game Boy? Prince Richard from this game made an appearance in Link's Awakening.

No, I haven't, but I just watched some it on YouTube. I think this one is kinda like the links grave in Final Fantasy, so I wouldn't count it in the timeline.

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Personally I liked your previous placement of BS LoZ better


I didn't change the placement...

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I'm sorry to report several possible mistakes on the TWW timeline branch. Firstly Navi Trackers, if it happens at all, would be set during TWW, because the King of Red Lions is still with Link (as well as other characters like Aryll).


He is? I've never seen him in it...

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Tingle Balloon Fight may happen around the same time (the Tingle Tower from TWW is featured in the game), shortly before or after TWW, but the actual Tingle games likely happen generations later (presumably long after Spirit Tracks even) as the Deku Tree's centuries long plan to grow more land seems to be bearing fruit (pun intended).

Yeah, the only game I've ever played out of the Tingle games is Rosy Ruppeeland (and part of the balloon trip of love), so I didn't really know where to place them.
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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Duke Serkol
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joesteve1914,Jan 17 2013
04:26 AM
I didn't change the placement...

Ah, that's right, my mistake. Still, I would suggest switching it around with the cartoon offshot.

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Quote:
 
Navi Trackers, if it happens at all, would be set during TWW, because the King of Red Lions is still with Link (as well as other characters like Aryll).


He is? I've never seen him in it...

You need to unlock him as a navigator by collecting shells.

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Yeah, the only game I've ever played out of the Tingle games is Rosy Ruppeeland (and part of the balloon trip of love), so I didn't really know where to place them.

Would you agree though that the landmass in it looks significantly larger than that in TWW?
Anything within Balloon Trip is probably inconsequential to a timeline placement since the game pulls an MM and takes place in another dimension.

Edit:

So, seeing as I've brought it up, let's talk about Soul Calibur II.
Which Link do you figure stars in it? There's lots of conflicting evidence.
His appearence is clearly based on the Link of OoT, blond hair, white overalls, Hylian shield and all that. Some sages are also mentioned as is an Ocarina... but both manual and game refuse to call it the Ocarina of Time.

Furthermore this Link is said to have just defeated a wizard that covered Hyrule in dark clouds, one who was once a righteous man but was corrupted by a fragment of Soul Edge. Now my best guess is for this to be Agahnim since several sources suggest that he was his own person before being possessed by Ganon (though there is of course no canon stance on that). If so, Soul Calibur II would happen between Ganon's demise and the moment when Link returns the Master Sword to its pedestal in the ending.
But that's not the only option. The wizard could be Vaati who was originally Ezlo's student, or Zant. Both of them tried to wrap Hyrule into darkness. However they already have a properly fleshed out backstory with motivations for turning evil that have nothing to do with any evil sword fragments. That and the Link of FSA never got the Master Sword, which is kind of a big deal (and the same could be said of the hero in FS's backstory), whereas Zant wasn't even conceptualized yet when sCII was released.
It is of course, also possible that this wizard is one we never saw in any game (and therefore neither did we ever witness his defeat). In that case it could well be the Link of OoT that stars in SCII... but it could just as easily be an all new Link that we've never seen outside of this game.

So... what's everyone's call on this one? I'm sticking to a post ALttP placement because it seems the most interesting one (since it provides some backstory for Agahnim). If not that, then I would say post OoT (or rather seven years after MM)... though that does beg the question, could Link retrieve the Master Sword without screwing up everything that was accomplished in OoT?
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KiddoCabbusses
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Duke Serkol,Jan 16 2013
11:28 PM
Personally I liked your previous placement of BS LoZ better, especially since, if the split off occurs before the Zelda of AoL is put into eternal sleep... what happened then to the Triforce of Courage that is conspicously missing from BS LoZ? I guess those same events could have happened on both branches, but since the one where they ought to have happened differently (the Trifrce of Courage sealed away without the Zelda of that time being cursed) is that which leads to the cartoon, maybe you should switch them around.

One thing noticable in BS Zelda Map 1 is that (outside of the arranges/remixes from the Famicom albums which bring up the NES Story even when it contradicts BS Zelda) the Triforce is always simply refered to as the "Triforce"... as in, a single, whole Triforce, or the pieces of a single, unified "Triforce", with no references to the "Power" or "Wisdom" halves.

Furthermore, the revamped Final Boss entrance gives the suggested imagery of the Player character literally having to use the Triforce to open the door in a manner that, basically, gives the Triforce to Ganon. (Only to then be reclaimed by the player character when Ganon is killed.)

It's rather nondescriptive, but it gives the impression that the status of the Triforce itself in BS Zelda Map 1 is different from how it was in NES Zelda. One of two possibilities:

1) The Triforce in the game represents the "Whole" Triforce, a la LttP. I assume this is what the devs were going for.
2) The Triforce is split and lost even further than it was in NES Zelda, to the point where no one can actually tell if this piece is the Power, Wisdom, or Courage part, or if any other parts still exist.
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KiddoCabbusses,Jan 17 2013
08:58 PM
the revamped Final Boss entrance gives the suggested imagery of the Player character literally having to use the Triforce to open the door in a manner that, basically, gives the Triforce to Ganon. (Only to then be reclaimed by the player character when Ganon is killed.)

I don't really see that. What flies into the door I take to just be the magic of the Triforce which retains the triangle shape (kind of like Mazinger's chest beam which is V shaped).
Even if it was the physical Triforce, I imagine it'd return to you and not just randomly go to Ganon.

Given how the game IS the first Zelda and that everyone's familiar with its story, it seems clear the one you get from Ganon is the Triforce of Power.

But it's an interesting theory :)
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Duke Serkol
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Yesterday I was pondering this again... and the thought came to me: do we have AoL happening after BS LoZ as well? (if we go for a split that places it on its own timeline, I mean)

Initially I was thinking that it would have to since there's no reason why it wouldn't... except Link never met Impa so who's going to tell him about the Triforce of Courage and give him the crystals?
But the thing is... maybe AoL doesn't need to happen. One of the game's plot points is that Ganon's minions are hunting down the hero to use him as a sacrifice to resurrect their master. Obviously they can't do that after BS LoZ since the hero left their world entirely. Now then this is purely speculation of course, but maybe without that goal to keep them together, Ganon's minions disbanded or even had internal power struggles that prevented them from continuing to be a threat.
If we assume that, then we can also suppose that (as for the cartoon/comic) the timeline split before the backstory of AoL and though the Triforce of Courage was hidden away, Zelda was not put under the eternal sleep spell... thus making it perfectly fine to wrap things up with just BS LoZ.

What do you guys think?
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Conn
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Yes; this is exactly what I was trying to tell with canoning bszelda this way:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/4gzah

Link fails, the old man remembers the hero of light from AST while Link was asleep and immediately uses his magic to teleport him from earth into the dimension of Hyrule. Triforces are still hidden, Zelda still imprisoned.
At the end, Ganon is trying to kill the old man (to not let him get another hero) and therefore leaves his spectacular rock (L9 in LoZ, L8 in bszelda) and kidnapps the old man in his own cave.
This way AoL can only happen if bszelda did not.

It's just my suggestion to solve all the canoning issues that arise with bszelda. You can think about this possiblility if you like - for me it makes perfect sense.

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KiddoCabbusses
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Con,Feb 4 2013
07:35 PM
Link fails, the old man remembers the hero of light from AST while Link was asleep...

If we go by the idea that BSLoZ and AST are in different timelines relative to Zelda canon (which based on what little evidence we have is more likely than not) then it couldn't work out like that unless the old man had multiversal awareness.

... Course, he seems to be oddly powerful for an old man... and he did get someone from another dimension anyhow... but regardless.

I think it'd be much easier to take it that for whatever BSLoZ is in a timeline where for whatever reason people have simply given up on any idea of their hero being a Hyrulian resident, or maybe even forgotten much of their old heroes lore. Link is probably simply absent, off in another land completely unaware of Hyrule's fate, if not Hyrule's very existence.

I don't really like thinking that Link somehow failed before he even got one danged Triforce piece.
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joesteve1914
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Con,Feb 4 2013
01:35 PM
Yes; this is exactly what I was trying to tell with canoning bszelda this way:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/4gzah

Link fails, the old man remembers the hero of light from AST while Link was asleep and immediately uses his magic to teleport him from earth into the dimension of Hyrule. Triforces are still hidden, Zelda still imprisoned.
At the end, Ganon is trying to kill the old man (to not let him get another hero) and therefore leaves his spectacular rock (L9 in LoZ, L8 in bszelda) and kidnapps the old man in his own cave.
This way AoL can only happen if bszelda did not.

It's just my suggestion to solve all the canoning issues that arise with bszelda. You can think about this possiblility if you like - for me it makes perfect sense.

I think I'm agreeing with Con's theory for BSZ. That does a good job of explaining why the old man called the mascot to hyrule to help (Ganon originally pulled him onto Hyrule, but after the mascot beat him the old man realized how powerful he was) But there's one more question- How would the old man know of the mascot if he's not in AST? I guess he could be Agihna...
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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Conn
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If we go by the idea that BSLoZ and AST are in different timelines relative to Zelda canon (which based on what little evidence we have is more likely than not) then it couldn't work out like that unless the old man had multiversal awareness.

As far as I see it, they aren't in different timelines relative to Zelda canon. At least AST takes place after the happenings of ALTTP while Link is asleep (LA).
According to all agreements, LoZ takes place in a time after ALTTP (different hero does not play a role here). We know that time goes different in Earth and Hyrule time so it must be the same Hero of Light fighting in both BSLoZ and AST, which is also supported by the fact that the mascot is imaging the player, means you.

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I don't really like thinking that Link somehow failed before he even got one danged Triforce piece.

Well, this is of course all speculation and hairsplitting. He can fail whenever. Ganon can still plunder collected triforce pieces from Link's dead body and hide it again (as long Ganon isn't defeated this works out - and when he is defeated there is of course not the need to transfer the Hero of Light since Link was successful and he can go for AoL).
Of course you can now say that Zelda hid the 8 triforce pieces and not Ganon. But then again; if the dungeon minions are Zelda's supporters, why has Link to defeat them and they just don't hand them over to Link? And why is Ganon in the final dungeon protected by Zelda's monsters? But on the other hand - if the dungeon monsters are Ganon's minions, why don't they hand over all triforce pieces to Ganon so that he has double triforce power?
I think we never find an answer to this issue.
What I want to say is that the mascot is like a 2nd chance to rescue Hyrule in case Link fails. AST happens before and the folk of Hyrule remembers the Hero of Light and retransfer him back so that he can prevent the rule of Ganon.

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I think I'm agreeing with Con's theory for BSZ. That does a good job of explaining why the old man called the mascot to hyrule to help (Ganon originally pulled him onto Hyrule, but after the mascot beat him the old man realized how powerful he was) But there's one more question- How would the old man know of the mascot if he's not in AST? I guess he could be Agihna...

Thanks :) this is for me the best explanation without speculating about a "what-if" situation and parallel timeline development. I made only a little mistake: not the old man is transferring the mascot but the guiding star. Guess it could be the same starshaped light that is taking back the hero from the master sword podest after AST happenings (Ganon who transferred him to Hyrule is gone, so is this the guiding star that takes him back...?). I think we do not know which force stands behind the star - the goddesses of Hyrule, the magic book of the old man?
About the old man being Agihna... we can only speculate here: I think since we do not know how much time pasts from AST to BSLoZ and how old Hylian people may get. But in any case the happenings of AST and the star-force may be known in the time in which LoZ takes place and also the magic that transfers the hero. Means the old man could but must not be Agihna.

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ethanland
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If the dungeon monsters are Zelda's, it could be a test of strength to see if you're worthy of having the piece of the triforce in the dungeon, and if the dungeon monsters are Ganon's, the triforce pieces could have a magic that prevents evil from touching the pieces and it could also make the pieces scatter if the bearer is killed.
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