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My timeline; Attempting to fit the BS games in
Topic Started: Jan 12 2013, 08:03 PM (4,922 Views)
Duke Serkol
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It's definitely a big improvement!

However I wouldn't put the first NES game before the split since in the other branches (besides the one with the G&W and AoL) it doesn't seem to have happened at all except for -part- of its backstory. In both Ganon returns and steals the Triforce of Power, but in the cartoon branch, Ganon is still alive and in possession of the Triforce of Power so Link apparently arrived before Zelda and the Triforce of Wisdom could be taken, preventing that from happening, and in BS LoZ Link doesn't show up at all (not a single piece of the Triforce of Wisdom has been recovered).
Concerning the Game Watch, I always considered it to be an adaptation of the first NES game (it doesn't really have its own plot, unlike the G&W, simply enough Link goes through dungeons to fight monsters and recover the Triforce). So maybe that should be placed before the cartoon in LoZ's place? Of course that would require the assumption that the Triforce of Wisdom was in fact stolen too... but Zelda and Ganon are not in it, so it doesn't conflict with him being still alive (since Link could just have recovered the Triforce without having to confront Ganon to save Zelda).

Furthermore, as Con points out:
Con,Mar 9 2013
01:46 AM
Also you are telling in this branch that zelda is asleep. This is wrong as far I know, she's awake in the cartoons.

The split should really happen before "The Tragedy of Princess Zelda I", so that said event only occurs in the branch leading to LoZ, the G&W and AoL.
I'd make the split happen before that and after a "The Triforce of Courage is hidden" event.

Concerning this though:
Con,Mar 9 2013
01:46 AM
Love it  especially that you took my idea of the hero defeated to canon bszelda.

I don't mind if you want to believe that Link gets killed at the very start of the game (again no Triforce parts recovered whatsoever), but I would rather leave it vague so that this timeline works also for those who, like me, prefer to think that Link wasn't involved at all (either because Impa was caught, or because they didn't meet or even because Link wasn't born at all in this timeline)

Perhaps a nitpick (not really important) but I always assumed Gamelon and Koridai (and Tolemac) to have been explored around the same period as the area of AoL, that is in the time of the "Triforce Ruling Monarchy", so I wouldn't mark their discovery (not anymore than marking "North Hyrule and Large Island to the East discovered")

Also, I notice that you keep placing "Color Changing Tingle's Love Balloon Trip" before "Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland". Last time I assumed it was just a mistake since, as far as I know, Balloon Trip is a direct sequel to Rose Rupeeland... do you know something I don't?

Lastly I'm kind of perplexed by the decision to put Tingle's Balloon Fight before and not after TWW. It doesn't cause any problems, but I'm curious as to why since the game was made after TWW and nothing indicates a placement precedent to it.
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Duke Serkol
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Con has inspired me to illustrate the changes I suggested directly on the timeline picture.

So I made a hasty (and very crappy looking, sorry about that) mock up.
Thoughts?


I'd like to point out: though this mock up doesn't outright say that Link failed or died in the branch that leads to BS Zelda, it does say he did not show up at all. It's quite possible he did not because he got himself killed... or becuase he was not born at all.
In that way, it could well be said that this incorporates Con's idea to make BS Zelda fit within canon :)
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Conn
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Though I still find it better to place bszelda after Link defeated I leave this decission up to JS (or shall we make a poll?).

I still do not understand how Zelda gets captured again and looses again her Triforce in Game and Watch shortly after Link rescued her in LoZ, this time by Dragons?
But I think this is specific for Zelda :P

There is still the failure that Ganon puts Zelda into an endless dream on the very left branch. But I do not know anything from the comics; is Zelda in an endless dream here and does Link have the triforce of courage in the comics?
Otherwise this sentence should be placed to AoL.
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Duke Serkol
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Con,Mar 14 2013
07:26 PM
Though I still find it better to place bszelda after Link defeated I leave this decission up to JS (or shall we make a poll?).

But given the lack of evidence as to what actually became of Link, isn't it better to leave this vague and just say that for whatever reason (be it that he got himself killed off or just never ran into Impa, or was never born) he simply couldn't save the day, letting everybody decide for themselves what the reason was?

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I still do not understand how Zelda gets captured again and looses again her Triforce in Game and Watch shortly after Link rescued her in LoZ, this time by Dragons?
But I think this is specific for Zelda :P

Yeah, there's no much to understand there... I'd say the first Zelda had more in common with Princess Peach than just the pink dress ;)

Quote:
 
There is still the failure that Ganon puts Zelda into an endless dream on the very left branch. But I do not know anything from the comics; is Zelda in an endless dream here and does Link have the triforce of courage in the comics?
Otherwise this sentence should be placed to AoL.

It's not shown, but it is stated in the comics that this happened at one point.
Specifically, in one of the comics, Ganon disguises himself as Impa and tries to trick Link by telling him that Ganon has AGAIN put Zelda under the eternal sleep spell (implying that it already happened once and to the present time Zelda, not one from ages past) and in another comic Link shows that he has already been to the Temples of AoL and that yes, he already has the Triforce of Courage (which was instead completely missing and never spoken of in the cartoon).
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Conn
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Quote:
 
But given the lack of evidence as to what actually became of Link, isn't it better to leave this vague and just say that for whatever reason (be it that he got himself killed off or just never ran into Impa, or was never born) he simply couldn't save the day, letting everybody decide for themselves what the reason was?

Mmh, there's no possible way to leave this vague. Theory 1 - a what if situation and the branch starts where you put it. Theory 2 - Link was defeated and the mascot must safe the day as he did before; branch starts after LoZ... both are speculations that makes sense but nobody knows for sure.

I make a poll out of it; our page is for the fans so the fans should decide whether they want it as kind of extra-canon in a what if situation or as part of the canon in a democratic way. This is the best here.

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It's not shown, but it is stated in the comics that this happened at one point.
Specifically, in one of the comics, Ganon disguises himself as Impa and tries to trick Link by telling him that Ganon has AGAIN put Zelda under the eternal sleep spell (implying that it already happened once and to the present time Zelda, not one from ages past) and in another comic Link shows that he has already been to the Temples of AoL and that yes, he already has the Triforce of Courage (which was instead completely missing and never spoken of in the cartoon).

Wouldn't it then be better to place the comics below AoL as direct sequel (Zelda again asleep, 3rd Triforce obtained)?
It only confuses me that the eternal sleep is written to the comics but not to AoL...

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Duke Serkol
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Con,Mar 14 2013
10:36 PM
Mmh, there's no possible way to leave this vague.

But... but that's what I just did:

Link does not arrive.

Why? You decide!
Maybe he didn't meet Impa. Maybe he did and then got himself killed. Maybe he doesn't exist.

Link (or rather "The hero") does not arrive is about as vague a statement as "for some reason things go differently".

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Theory 1 - a what if situation and the branch starts where you put it. Theory 2 - Link was defeated and the mascot must safe the day as he did before; branch starts after LoZ... both are speculations that makes sense but nobody knows for sure.

I just wrote this in a reply to your last letter, but I'll paste it here too:

It is not whether Link just never meets Impa or if he dies that determines BS Zelda's status as canon or not canon.

Either explanation as to why another hero was necessary could be used with both the mere "what if" scenario or for a further split in the timeline that makes the game fit within canon.
(It would be just the same if I said that BS Zelda was a "what if" scenario in which Link died or a split off branch of the timeline in which, for some reason he and Impa do not meet)

The only real discriminant is just that: whether we consider the game a possibility that never occurred (not even in a different branch of the timeline) or something that happens because the timeline branches off before the first NES game.

Rather, it would be useful to find an explanation as to -why- the timeline splits off again. In Ocarina of Time, the timeline was split by Zelda when she mucked around with time by sending Link back, changing the past.
In Oracle of Ages both Veran and Link have their way with time. So much so that I think we can just point at that without being any more specific for our explanation as to why the timeline splits again.

Quote:
 
Wouldn't it then be better to place the comics below AoL as direct sequel (Zelda again asleep, 3rd Triforce obtained)?
It only confuses me that the eternal sleep is written to the comics but not to AoL...

No, because it's a different Princess Zelda that's under the eternal sleep spell in AoL (one that lived centuries before the current Link and Zelda) and she was not cursed by Ganon but rather by a wizard hired by her brother.

The eternal sleep spell that leads to AoL is "The Tragedy of Princess Zelda 1" which as you can see I placed after the split but before the first NES game.
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Conn
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Quote:
 
Rather, it would be useful to find an explanation as to -why- the timeline splits off again. In Ocarina of Time, the timeline was split by Zelda when she mucked around with time by sending Link back, changing the past.
In Oracle of Ages both Veran and Link have their way with time. So much so that I think we can just point at that without being any more specific for our explanation as to why the timeline splits again.

The teleportation from a hero from earth (AST or BS Zelda) might be responsible- As he's from another dimension this simply can change history. Time is going different on earth and thus it might be possible that the hero is transferred into another time epoche of Hyrule.

But I really have enough now from speculations ;)

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Tuf Pic
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*The Thread Necromancer*!!!! :stalfos:
Since we are discussing non-conformist timelines, here's mine:

Tuf Pic's Timeline
slightly edited
*NECRO-BUMP*: :stalfos:

I'm sorry, but I recently viewed:

This video, which (briefly), defends Hyrule Historia, & then goes on to tell you why the poster doesn't believe it anyways...

Why am I bringing this up?!

Well, towards the end he says something about how if the fan translations of Hyrule Historia are to be believed, that even Aounuma says that fans aren't required to give up on their timelines/theories, just because Nintendo says something different, as they have changed their minds, from time to time... (Which they have)...

...(Skip to 4:34 to hear that part)...

...So there MIGHT BE SOME HOPE FOR US AFTER ALL!! ;)

Also, wanted to take this chance to rearrange my timeline somewhat:

Pre-Split: SWS ->TMC -> OOTURA/OOT

Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST

Child Timeline#1: OOTURA -> MM -> ALTTPGBA -> FS (possibly the Anniversary Edition), -> FSA -> SC2 ->  LADX/AST -> BSLOZ -> AOL -> OOX

Child Timeline#2: Regular OOT -> MM -> ALTTPSNES -> FS -> FSA ->OOX  -> LAB&W -> ALBW -> LOZ  ->G&W -> AOL (Is it possible to switch the order of which game goes before which, from timeline to timeline)?!

...&...

Twilight/Duplicate Child Timeline #3: TP->LCT

The other general media/games have their timelines as well, (yes, even the Tingle games/Mangas/Comic Books/CD-I Games/Cartoons), but I can't think of how to place those, @least @the moment...

EDIT: Anything else that I should add?!


Also, to justify SC2 being in the timeline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1TSpfPFNlE

SIDE-NOTE: Speaking of parallel universes, the idea of multiple universes is actually ANCIENT!!

http://www.mysticalblaze.com/OtherDimensions.htm,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28religion%29,

...&...

Michio Kaku in his book "Hyperspace"
 
Actually, the idea that there may be multiple universes is an old one. The philosopher St. Albertus Magnus once wrote, "Do there exist many worlds, or is there but a single world? This is one of the most noble and exalted questions in the study of nature."


Sorry for going off on a tangent, but... this actually *DOES* have some bearing on Zelda!!

http://www.odysseyofhyrule.com/zphysics.htm
My Viewpoints
 
"Nothing you can say will ever convince me that the Zelda, Link & Impa of OOTURA, ALTTPGBA, SC2, BSLOZ, & OOX are different characters, or that Link isn't part Kokiri, FOR SOME Zelda Universes and that the mangas aren't canon FOR SOME alternate realities."

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joesteve1914
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Quote:
 
Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST


Navi trackers has to take place before or during WW because the king of red lions is in it ;)
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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ethanland
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05:01 PM
Sorry for going off on a tangent

Isn't that all you do?
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Duke Serkol
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joesteve1914,Mar 13 2014
02:28 AM
Quote:
 
Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST


Navi trackers has to take place before or during WW because the king of red lions is in it ;)

How would before make any sense? Link first meets the King of Red Lions and Tetra after Aryll gets kidnapped.
During is the only option.
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joesteve1914
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Duke Serkol,Mar 13 2014
09:38 AM
joesteve1914,Mar 13 2014
02:28 AM
Quote:
 
Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST


Navi trackers has to take place before or during WW because the king of red lions is in it ;)

How would before make any sense? Link first meets the King of Red Lions and Tetra after Aryll gets kidnapped.
During is the only option.

Oh, right ^_^
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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*The Thread Necromancer*!!!! :stalfos:
ethanland,Mar 13 2014
11:45 AM
Tuf Pic,Mar 11 2014
05:01 PM
Sorry for going off on a tangent


Isn't that all you do?


That's not ALL I DO!! :P
My Viewpoints
 
"Nothing you can say will ever convince me that the Zelda, Link & Impa of OOTURA, ALTTPGBA, SC2, BSLOZ, & OOX are different characters, or that Link isn't part Kokiri, FOR SOME Zelda Universes and that the mangas aren't canon FOR SOME alternate realities."

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joesteve1914
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Hey guys,
Recently I've started a new Zelda timeline project. I'm attempting to fit every Zelda game, book, manga, etc into a timeline. Here's a preview of what it's going to be- https://www.dropbox.com/s/iat6kcjdo6m40rm/ztime.jpg
Translating Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love-https://tingletranslation.blogspot.com
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*The Thread Necromancer*!!!! :stalfos:
Everybody, I thought I'd share something that pertains to this thread...

http://zeldaeu.wikia.com/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_Series

EDIT: @joesteve1914: Are you going to add Soul Calibur 2?!

Also, I'd wager that the beta versions should get some recognition...

That's just me personally, however!!
My Viewpoints
 
"Nothing you can say will ever convince me that the Zelda, Link & Impa of OOTURA, ALTTPGBA, SC2, BSLOZ, & OOX are different characters, or that Link isn't part Kokiri, FOR SOME Zelda Universes and that the mangas aren't canon FOR SOME alternate realities."

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