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My ongoing location; baiting, mud prints, sour corn mash
Topic Started: Aug 4 2005, 11:38 PM (1,307 Views)
dapperdan
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Belle asked that I post this here as well.

July 16, 2005 Texas
time: 5:41 pm
temp: 96 sunny
wind : se approx 10 mph gusts
shallow river bed, approaching area of previous baiting on a skiff(sp) Deepest area 4 ft.

We were moving boat slowly, when something in water to North caught my attention. Splash sound, movement and brush breaking approx 75 yards up river. We moved quietly, but quick as we could get by with, to location. From distance saw water cloudy near bank. I jumped out and walked rest of way. I skirted area to minimize sediment disturbance, friend walked boat up slowly. Sediment in print had not completely settled at time of first pics, so it was short time period of time from splash to taking pic. While waiting for it to settle I found another partial print in dark mud up stream 5 yards. Didn't look like much from angle seen, was in shadow of tree. Viewed from rear it looked better. Possible knee print beside it did not turn out in pics. I did not have measuring tape to measure with. (I know, I know, bad DD.) Reflection at top of water pics is front of skiff. Water and sun made taking pics a nightmare.

I played around with that print/impression under water and managed to get a little more detail using a shadow feature in one of my programs. I didn't find any definate left foot impressions. If the strides are as long as I think they should be, the left was on hard dry land or in water in both cases. The clear track was on semi-hard surface in the heel area, and in stiff mud at ball and toes of foot. The deepest part before toes was about 1 1/2 inches with the 1st 3 toes being deeper but they had water in bottom. The heel was only about 1/2 inch deep. These are guesses using my finger as a measurement then measuring when I got home. Track was also on a decline on the bank so the depth was hard to judge for me. The length of the mud print was approx. 17 3/4 inches, but that is a rough guess going off of the cast and the 1st 2nd & 3rd toes were kind of arched down into the mud.
I didn't think about cast reinforcement and I didn't have much plaster with me because we weren't looking for BF sign at that time of day. (It is still in one piece so far, but I haven't attempted to clean it yet.) . We were actually looking for big cat sign, due to a recent sighting 2 miles away and goats coming up missing near there. Just goes to prove that you have to plan to see something whether you expect too or not.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


This is the location that we have been doing some baiting at. Here is an excerpt from the posts at KBR.

Quote:
 
I recently had someone ask about how my friends and I used chocolate to bait with. Now that I have something a little more substantial, I thought I would back track and give some background info. 

When I first started to look into BF research. I met some interesting sorts and became friends with some that don't participate on the internet discussions. I had one of these people tell me about leaving unwrapped chocolate out on a rather large boulder while on his way to his deer blind one day. (He had found footprints, but never seen anything.) He said he had that feeling of being watched and wanted to see what happened if he left something of his there. He left half of a hershey bar out on a boulder that was 4 ft or so tall and walked on to his deer stand only about 1/4 mile away like it was any other morning. The stand was upwind of the location where he left the candy, so he left his heavy jacket for scent and decided to find a way to circle back and see what was at the rock if anything. In that short period of time it took for him to go back, the chocolate was gone. So this became his toll to get to his blind. He never saw anything, but he heard knocks, and vocalizations while he sat out there. He got to an age that he no longer went into the woods and instead skimmed the BF sites for entertainment. He did the chocolate thing for 3 deer seasons in the late 70's. I will not disclose anything about my source, but he was highly entertaining.

So when I started to look into my suspect location, I suggested for grins that we try hershey kisses during the cooler months. We used kisses due to the small size and ability to place them in out of the way places. While I have no doubt other things got some of the first chocolates we set out, I thought it was worth a shot.

My friends that have that property leased started to suspend small barrels with sour corn about 6 ft from the ground to attract wild hogs. They would go and tip the barrel and spill the sour mash out and then refill for the next time. Well, I hadn't told anyone this, they went out to find a barrel empty and no mash in sight in mid December. The chain that suspended the barrel had scraped the limb of all it's bark and the barrel looked banged up. That is what gave us the idea about using poly feed sacks. the bait went from soured corn to meat and fruits, to care packages with 5 peeled hershey kisses. After 1 month, the chocolate bags were the first to go. It was decided that we had an individual that was checking often, and was using the scent to find the best bags. We changed delivery methods in the later part of spring and went to paint cans( the kind you can buy empty) w/tops on, and holes punctured in them. We suspended by wire or chain and used the bail. We thought that would help eliminate the list of possible culprits, and make it more of a challenge. We have found the wire and chained stretched and broken, and the cans crushed like coke cans. It became a weekly ritual until the weather got hot and the time got scarce. The guys take fresh fruit and tougher cuts of hog and exotic (deer) meat out there still but not as often. They have put chocolate in the cans in hopes of the melted chocolate leaving a finger print on the can. So far nothing conclusive in the smears, but they have been photo'd for our records.

I have no doubts that the creatures out there are intelligent and know that we were baiting them. However, the 3 of us baiting have also hunted that land for deer, hogs and coons since 1990 when we were freshmen in hs. They don't have a reason to fear us because we have always been a source for food. ( field dressing, and the occasional wounded pig) We also didn't go into the area along the river much until last fall. No domestic animals go into that acreage even with the gate open.(cows, horses, or hunting dogs) There is no rhyme or reason to our little successes, and nothing is CONCLUSIVE yet. All I have is incidents from our hunting trips, and a couple decent photos.

I do find it funny that sour corn mash and chocolate has gotten our best responses.
dd :bigfoot:

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Mike2k1
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Good pictures DD. Have you considered sending a copy of the prints to Meldrum. I can get you the E-mail address.


Mike
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Josh Willard
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That's a good idea, Mike! Also, I like the pics as well! They are very interesting. :onethumbup:
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fletch2820
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dunno how old that track is or if it has rained there since then, have zero idea what the area even looks like. but from what i can tell from the pic, the left hand track should have been way to the left of this track pictured, not in front of it. to me it looks like whatever side stepped. not walked forward. crap, tried to post the angles but it won't let me.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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dapperdan
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Fletch I understand what you are saying, the mud track that isn't under water, looks like the foot slid sideways. Next to that track was a rounded imprint that I thought may have been a knee because it had no visual toe or knuckle marks and seemed like there was hair imprints. The pictures of it were too dark and lightening them just made it worse. The cast of it was no help. There was quite a drop off into the water in front of that track so anything under the water was not visible. As you can see at the heel, the ground was quite dry and hard. All that was around these tracks was misc. and obscur disturbances and nothing looking like prints. That area has been quite dry, and this creek is one of the few that is deep enough to keep water in dry conditions. That particular area is a spot that is deep and the water pools there. The bank on ther other side of the creek was covered in leaf litter and no tracks were seen. Something else that I observed and may have forgot to include in this post was that the last 2 toes looked like they were mishapen or had been injured. The mud was just as deep where they were, but the impression was shallower for them. Don't know if this helps with the evaluation or not.

I will be calling my friends this evening to see if they have any new findings. They have been looking for the big cat most evenings and have temporarily put the BF on a side burner. It has brought down some calves and the GW is wanting to find it before more people go out and start shooting at shadows.
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Mike2k1
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dapperdan
Aug 5 2005, 07:30 PM
Fletch I understand what you are saying, the mud track that isn't under water, looks like the foot slid sideways. Next to that track was a rounded imprint that I thought may have been a knee because it had no visual toe or knuckle marks and seemed like there was hair imprints. The pictures of it were too dark and lightening them just made it worse. The cast of it was no help. There was quite a drop off into the water in front of that track so anything under the water was not visible. As you can see at the heel, the ground was quite dry and hard. All that was around these tracks was misc. and obscur disturbances and nothing looking like prints. That area has been quite dry, and this creek is one of the few that is deep enough to keep water in dry conditions. That particular area is a spot that is deep and the water pools there. The bank on ther other side of the creek was covered in leaf litter and no tracks were seen. Something else that I observed and may have forgot to include in this post was that the last 2 toes looked like they were mishapen or had been injured. The mud was just as deep where they were, but the impression was shallower for them. Don't know if this helps with the evaluation or not.

I will be calling my friends this evening to see if they have any new findings. They have been looking for the big cat most evenings and have temporarily put the BF on a side burner. It has brought down some calves and the GW is wanting to find it before more people go out and start shooting at shadows.

Saw the toes. Looks like a foot slide in the motion. Knee print?? Any pictures of that? The first time I saw it, I looked quick and thought bear overlay....then no looks like mid break in the foot though. Second toe on the foot looks longer....looks interesting. Good work DD.
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goldie
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good pictures and story about the chocolate. Thanks.
http://spaces.msn.com/members/goldiesblog/
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dapperdan
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The pictures of the other impression that I called a "knee" print are too dark due to the shadow cast by an oak tree. I was unable to get a good focus, and trying to lighten them made it more obscure. As for the toe prints, the big toe is flexed down into the mud giving it the look of being shorter than the second. I am looking at the cast and trying to figure the length of both and they are close to the same length as best I can figure. There is a mid break that shows up in the cast. I do not want to post a picture of the cast, it will be unseen until I gather more from this location.

As for a bear, it is interesting that you say that. An archaelogical group had their dig site tore up on this property a couple years ago. The tents, equipment and bags with findings were scattered to the winds. The "experts" from the university said bear. Only thing is, there are no known bears in that part of Texas and the game wardens asked the exotic ranches if they had any "special" hunts and had lost a bear. The answer was no. Considering the revenue that one of these hunts would have generated, I think that they would have answered truthfully. The owner of the property had several calls about people coming to hunt it. He said no, and sent the university packing as well. He thinks we are crazy, but thinks a BF is more logical than a bear. YA Gotta love old Germans!

dd
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Mike2k1
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Quote:
 
The pictures of the other impression that I called a "knee" print are too dark due to the shadow cast by an oak tree. I was unable to get a good focus, and trying to lighten them made it more obscure.


Understand that...had it happen recently to a couple of photo's. Found a decent partial print next to an interesting tree structure. Laid down the rulers for scale and shot two photo's. This was done in a dark heavily wooded swamp. When the photos where developed, they were too dark to distinguish the track very much.
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fletch2820
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instead of lightening the pic try adjusting the gamma if u have that capability. if not, email me the pic and i'll try adjusting it for u and email it back. i use a couple of programs messing with pics and have spent days trying to see what the heck was in them. usually they r just rocks, tree trunks and shadows. Did find some bears once, a mama with a tracking collar and two cubs that were being sold off as squatch.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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bwillard
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Great pictures! Very interesting to look at. Keep us updated on any further investigations and information. You have my interest.

:woot:
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www.sasquatchwatch.org
Visit our Sasquatch Watch of Virginia Cafe Press StoreSasquatch Watch of Virginia Cafe Press Store!

Director of Sasquatch Watch of Virginia and Vice President of the American Bigfoot Society (ABS)
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billgreen
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dapperdan
Aug 4 2005, 11:38 PM
Belle asked that I post this here as well.

July 16, 2005 Texas
time: 5:41 pm
temp: 96 sunny
wind : se approx 10 mph gusts
shallow river bed, approaching area of previous baiting on a skiff(sp) Deepest area 4 ft.

We were moving boat slowly, when something in water to North caught my attention. Splash sound, movement and brush breaking approx 75 yards up river. We moved quietly, but quick as we could get by with, to location. From distance saw water cloudy near bank. I jumped out and walked rest of way. I skirted area to minimize sediment disturbance, friend walked boat up slowly. Sediment in print had not completely settled at time of first pics, so it was short time period of time from splash to taking pic. While waiting for it to settle I found another partial print in dark mud up stream 5 yards. Didn't look like much from angle seen, was in shadow of tree. Viewed from rear it looked better. Possible knee print beside it did not turn out in pics. I did not have measuring tape to measure with. (I know, I know, bad DD.) Reflection at top of water pics is front of skiff. Water and sun made taking pics a nightmare.

I played around with that print/impression under water and managed to get a little more detail using a shadow feature in one of my programs. I didn't find any definate left foot impressions. If the strides are as long as I think they should be, the left was on hard dry land or in water in both cases. The clear track was on semi-hard surface in the heel area, and in stiff mud at ball and toes of foot. The deepest part before toes was about 1 1/2 inches with the 1st 3 toes being deeper but they had water in bottom. The heel was only about 1/2 inch deep. These are guesses using my finger as a measurement then measuring when I got home. Track was also on a decline on the bank so the depth was hard to judge for me. The length of the mud print was approx. 17 3/4 inches, but that is a rough guess going off of the cast and the 1st 2nd & 3rd toes were kind of arched down into the mud.
I didn't think about cast reinforcement and I didn't have much plaster with me because we weren't looking for BF sign at that time of day. (It is still in one piece so far, but I haven't attempted to clean it yet.) . We were actually looking for big cat sign, due to a recent sighting 2 miles away and goats coming up missing near there. Just goes to prove that you have to plan to see something whether you expect too or not.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


This is the location that we have been doing some baiting at. Here is an excerpt from the posts at KBR.

Quote:
 
I recently had someone ask about how my friends and I used chocolate to bait with. Now that I have something a little more substantial, I thought I would back track and give some background info. 

When I first started to look into BF research. I met some interesting sorts and became friends with some that don't participate on the internet discussions. I had one of these people tell me about leaving unwrapped chocolate out on a rather large boulder while on his way to his deer blind one day. (He had found footprints, but never seen anything.) He said he had that feeling of being watched and wanted to see what happened if he left something of his there. He left half of a hershey bar out on a boulder that was 4 ft or so tall and walked on to his deer stand only about 1/4 mile away like it was any other morning. The stand was upwind of the location where he left the candy, so he left his heavy jacket for scent and decided to find a way to circle back and see what was at the rock if anything. In that short period of time it took for him to go back, the chocolate was gone. So this became his toll to get to his blind. He never saw anything, but he heard knocks, and vocalizations while he sat out there. He got to an age that he no longer went into the woods and instead skimmed the BF sites for entertainment. He did the chocolate thing for 3 deer seasons in the late 70's. I will not disclose anything about my source, but he was highly entertaining.

So when I started to look into my suspect location, I suggested for grins that we try hershey kisses during the cooler months. We used kisses due to the small size and ability to place them in out of the way places. While I have no doubt other things got some of the first chocolates we set out, I thought it was worth a shot.

My friends that have that property leased started to suspend small barrels with sour corn about 6 ft from the ground to attract wild hogs. They would go and tip the barrel and spill the sour mash out and then refill for the next time. Well, I hadn't told anyone this, they went out to find a barrel empty and no mash in sight in mid December. The chain that suspended the barrel had scraped the limb of all it's bark and the barrel looked banged up. That is what gave us the idea about using poly feed sacks. the bait went from soured corn to meat and fruits, to care packages with 5 peeled hershey kisses. After 1 month, the chocolate bags were the first to go. It was decided that we had an individual that was checking often, and was using the scent to find the best bags. We changed delivery methods in the later part of spring and went to paint cans( the kind you can buy empty) w/tops on, and holes punctured in them. We suspended by wire or chain and used the bail. We thought that would help eliminate the list of possible culprits, and make it more of a challenge. We have found the wire and chained stretched and broken, and the cans crushed like coke cans. It became a weekly ritual until the weather got hot and the time got scarce. The guys take fresh fruit and tougher cuts of hog and exotic (deer) meat out there still but not as often. They have put chocolate in the cans in hopes of the melted chocolate leaving a finger print on the can. So far nothing conclusive in the smears, but they have been photo'd for our records.

I have no doubts that the creatures out there are intelligent and know that we were baiting them. However, the 3 of us baiting have also hunted that land for deer, hogs and coons since 1990 when we were freshmen in hs. They don't have a reason to fear us because we have always been a source for food. ( field dressing, and the occasional wounded pig) We also didn't go into the area along the river much until last fall. No domestic animals go into that acreage even with the gate open.(cows, horses, or hunting dogs) There is no rhyme or reason to our little successes, and nothing is CONCLUSIVE yet. All I have is incidents from our hunting trips, and a couple decent photos.

I do find it funny that sour corn mash and chocolate has gotten our best responses.
dd :bigfoot:

hi dapperdan good afternoon wow those are very interesting photos of sasquatch footprints in the mud. they realy have great details. please keep me posted of further activity or sasquatch evidence you might find ok. thanks bill green :) :) :bigfoot: :bigfoot:
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Mike2k1
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DD,

How long have you guys been scouting this area for sign? Also, what made this area appealing to you as a site for research? To me looks like you've got some good things to followup on. Oh, what material are you using to cast with?


Mike
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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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I traced the outline on these prints just for fun.
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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dapperdan
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WOW, outlined those look freaky! The toe in the mud track was curled into the mud, and if it had been straight that trace would have been really cool.

The reason we started "researching" the area is because of the aforementioned "bear" conclusion that the University experts had come up with. That is when the original group that hunted that land as kids got together and started remembering some of the things that scared the poo out of us. We used that parcel of land as a courage test for new friends, but it really scared us too.

We compiled a list of what we used to have happen on a regular basis every weekend from fall of '90 to spring of '98. We went home from college every weekend, after college we continued to go once a month for awhile, then life took most of us away from the area and it left the 3 that were raised in that town to hunt it. The land belongs to the great uncle of the 2 that have it leased now, and the third is cousin on the other side of the family. ok....to the list

while hunting
being followed in brush, beside, behind, and in front of us. When we stopped we would hear snapping of brush then silence.

hit by rocks, we always thought it was one of us preying on our fear

howls, chatter and other strange noises, always figured they were "normal" creatures with bad vocal chords or were young.

hair standing on end, feeling of being watched

I was jerked off of my feet as we went through thick brush, I assumed it was guy behind me or branch caught my hood. More on that story later ;)

Oldest guy in group left his rifle leaning against tree to go into brush to "take care of business" stock was broke off, blamed little brother

our dogs wouldn't enter that area, wounded animals would if they felt pressured.

We never found our wounded animals in that area. Would see blood trail and then it would disappear.

Found before or after hunt


broken tree limbs that were twisted

bark stripped from trees at 9+ feet

mulberry tree with fruit weighted down with log from downed oak. Took 3 people to get it off.

bizarre carcasses of hogs and deer. only thing left on some was smashed skull and most of a hide. deer dismembered and in a tree. May have been a big cat.

tracks that followed ours then split off into the cover.

The archaelogical site being torn apart, only thing taken was apples.

After I had my encounter in 98, I looked into BF and what was being said as far as behavior and habits. It was startling the similarities and differences. It wasn't until the accusation of a bear, that I talked to my friends. That is when we all sat down and started to put a pen to our experiences. One of the group had not gone back out there in years, and won't go. He saw something grab my jacket hood and tug me over. It stepped between us and pulled me down. All he could say was it was tall, hairy and it had funny looking eyes. He told us that in early 2004, and is the reason that we decided to look into the possibility of it being a home to squatch. Since it is leased and owned by members of 1 family, we got free rein to do what we want to do.


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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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Hey, DD. Here is a larger version of the mud track traced. I'm not trying to say this track was faked or anything, but to me, it doesn't make any sense. Granted, I'm not any kind of expert on tracks or footprints. That being said, here is what I see wrong with it. 1) It doesn't look like your typical BF track. It's shaped all funny. 2) If the reason it is shaped funny is because it slid in the mud, then why do the toe prints not show any sign of slippage. The toe prints are very defined and exact. 3) The interior of the track appears to have many surfaces, almost as though someone made it using there fingers.

Again, I'm not saying it is a fake or that your trying to hoax us, these are just my honest observations. If you have a larger scan of this picture, I would love to take a look at it. When I try to get close, it gets real fuzzy on me. I appreciate you posting these for us to discuss. :)

The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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Mike2k1
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ACS....possibly, the way I am interpeting is the foot impacted with a slide or wobble, the print maker stood for a second flexing the toes in a manner of deciding what to do next befor moving which would explain some of the kick back mud and shape of the print.. Now the question I do have is was this a track series or single prints? If it is a series did you photograph the series? Something placed by the track when taking the picture to show scale would be helpful also.

Mike
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Mike2k1
Aug 10 2005, 06:53 PM
ACS....possibly, the way I am interpeting is the foot impacted with a slide or wobble, the print maker stood for a second flexing the toes in a manner of deciding what to do next befor moving which would explain some of the kick back mud and shape of the print.. Now the question I do have is was this a track series or single prints? If it is a series did you photograph the series? Something placed by the track when taking the picture to show scale would be helpful also.

Mike

You may be on to something there, Mike. A picture of the complete trackway would probably answer your theory. If a bf stopped and wiggled it's toes, then the trackway should be consistent with a trackway that stops and then continues. Perhaps another print would be located beside this one at around shoulder width. It would be unlikely that it would stop in full stride and wiggle it's toes. Do you know what I mean?
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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Mike2k1
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Aug 10 2005, 07:59 PM
Mike2k1
Aug 10 2005, 06:53 PM
ACS....possibly, the way I am interpeting is the foot impacted with a slide or wobble, the print maker stood for a second flexing the toes in a manner of deciding what to do next befor moving which would explain some of the kick back mud and shape of the print.. Now the question I do have is was this a track series or single prints? If it is a series did you photograph the series? Something placed by the track when taking the picture to show scale would be helpful also.

Mike

You may be on to something there, Mike. A picture of the complete trackway would probably answer your theory. If a bf stopped and wiggled it's toes, then the trackway should be consistent with a trackway that stops and then continues. Perhaps another print would be located beside this one at around shoulder width. It would be unlikely that it would stop in full stride and wiggle it's toes. Do you know what I mean?

This statement is what I'm basing my post on:

Quote:
 
We were moving boat slowly, when something in water to North caught my attention. Splash sound, movement and brush breaking approx 75 yards up river.


Boat coming...move, stop for second, see if still approaching......yeah, go! Almost got me.. ;)
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I'm not sure what you mean, Mike, but try standing at full stride, bare-footed with you right foot in front, and then wiggle your toes. I just tried it and almost fell over. I don't know, I may be way off on this line of thinking. That track just struck me as really odd. ;)
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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