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My ongoing location; baiting, mud prints, sour corn mash
Topic Started: Aug 4 2005, 11:38 PM (1,310 Views)
dapperdan
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interesting observation by both. :aplaud:
The area leading up to that creek was dry until right before the water. The track under water is just this. I saw a disturbance of sediment in the other wise clear water. The bank was dry and that track was under about 6 inches of water, the water got much deeper about 2 foot into the creek, so I was unable to find another track in the water. The dirt on that side of the creek is extremely hard and rocky so no "tracks" were found, but there was scrapings in the dirt consistent with something unhooved walking to the water.
The same is true of the mud track, the heel and foot area that you out lined is misleading on the computer screen. The edge of the heel is dry dirt with mud over the top. Like it stepped wriggled the toes into the mud, causing the mud to be pushed up under the "sole" then stepped back down onto the heel area. That maybe why the track is so odd looking. I have posted an addendum to ACS outline of track. Since I am holding the cast and saw the track with my eyes, I have the unfair advantage of being able to observe in retrospect. ;)

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As I said in my original post on these tracks, we weren't looking for BF sign so I wasn't prepared with all of my usual things. ie nothing that could be used for a scale, and less plaster than I would have liked. We were looking for possible mexican lion tracks, so I went light in the supply bag and heavy in the ammo bag. I won't do that again!
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Mike2k1
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Aug 10 2005, 10:29 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, Mike, but try standing at full stride, bare-footed with you right foot in front, and then wiggle your toes. I just tried it and almost fell over. I don't know, I may be way off on this line of thinking. That track just struck me as really odd. ;)

Your gonna make me break out my damn paper and marker again!! The world will despise you for that. ;)
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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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Mike2k1
Aug 11 2005, 11:34 AM
Arm Chair Squatcherback
Aug 10 2005, 10:29 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, Mike, but try standing at full stride, bare-footed with you right foot in front, and then wiggle your toes.  I just tried it and almost fell over.  I don't know, I may be way off on this line of thinking.  That track just struck me as really odd.  ;)

Your gonna make me break out my damn paper and marker again!! The world will despise you for that. ;)

:woot: :lmao:
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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dapperdan
Aug 11 2005, 10:18 AM
interesting observation by both. :aplaud:
The area leading up to that creek was dry until right before the water. The track under water is just this. I saw a disturbance of sediment in the other wise clear water. The bank was dry and that track was under about 6 inches of water, the water got much deeper about 2 foot into the creek, so I was unable to find another track in the water. The dirt on that side of the creek is extremely hard and rocky so no "tracks" were found, but there was scrapings in the dirt consistent with something unhooved walking to the water.
The same is true of the mud track, the heel and foot area that you out lined is misleading on the computer screen. The edge of the heel is dry dirt with mud over the top. Like it stepped wriggled the toes into the mud, causing the mud to be pushed up under the "sole" then stepped back down onto the heel area. That maybe why the track is so odd looking. I have posted an addendum to ACS outline of track. Since I am holding the cast and saw the track with my eyes, I have the unfair advantage of being able to observe in retrospect. ;)

Posted Image

As I said in my original post on these tracks, we weren't looking for BF sign so I wasn't prepared with all of my usual things. ie nothing that could be used for a scale, and less plaster than I would have liked. We were looking for possible mexican lion tracks, so I went light in the supply bag and heavy in the ammo bag. I won't do that again!

Do you have a picture of the cast you can post? Also, since the toe area looks so distinct, I was wondering if any dermal ridges showed up on the cast from that area? Any plans on going back soon? :)
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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Mike2k1
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Aug 10 2005, 10:29 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, Mike, but try standing at full stride, bare-footed with you right foot in front, and then wiggle your toes. I just tried it and almost fell over. I don't know, I may be way off on this line of thinking. That track just struck me as really odd. ;)

Don't stand full stride....take a regular stride stop..flex only the big toe, back leg foot will be flexed to move. Real easy to do....actually the flexing of the toe gives more stabilty.


Mike
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fletch2820
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Hey guys. Instead of standing in mud on one foot barefoot and wiggling your toes, try stepping backwards and pushing off with the ball of your foot. That,s what it looks like to me.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Mike2k1
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fletch2820
Aug 15 2005, 06:14 PM
Hey guys. Instead of standing in mud on one foot barefoot and wiggling your toes, try stepping backwards and pushing off with the ball of your foot. That,s what it looks like to me.

Could be possible also..........doesn't fit the path tha DD is suggesting though.
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fletch2820
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Mike2k1
Aug 15 2005, 06:34 PM
fletch2820
Aug 15 2005, 06:14 PM
Hey guys. Instead of standing in mud on one foot barefoot and wiggling your toes, try stepping backwards and pushing off with the ball of your foot. That,s what it looks like to me.

Could be possible also..........doesn't fit the path tha DD is suggesting though.

I understand that. I'm not there to see for myself and I dunno how good DD or her friends are at tracking. I'm like you and Arm. All I have is her text and these pics. I kinda get the feeling she is misreading the tracks which is entirely possible. It can take a bit to decipher them sometimes. What I see in these pics r tracks left by two enitrely different critters. The pics may be misleading me, but the pic in question looks like something stepped backwards for some reason instead of moving forwards. It makes no logical sense to me for something to be striding along, stop on one foot and then stand there and wiggle it's toes, no criticism intended. It does make sense to me though for something to be moving forwards, pause and change directions by backstepping and moving towards it's left as it pushed of with it's right foot. Am I misreading her report of overlooking something here?
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Mike2k1
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Quote:
 
It makes no logical sense to me for something to be striding along, stop on one foot and then stand there and wiggle it's toes, no criticism intended.


No criticism taken but I feel the need to explain "wiggle". It was a poor choice in terms on my part. What I mean is standing with the big toe bent or curled like suggested in the photo. As weird as it might sound I do this alot especially if I'm barefoot or wearing flip-flops. Why? I don't know for sure maybe it's more stability and at times it might be comfortable to do. Matter of fact my wife noticed that I do that and claims she does on occasions. Might be a sign of being indecisive? Don't know anything for sure with out a full track way showing the first prints til they enter the water. Water also does a number on track integrity any way. Plus on the track in question she is suggesting two types of soil consistency dry dirt and mud. As far as the toe curl.... Hey try it........might be a new fad!?!?! :lol:
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fletch2820
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i'm looking at a couple of things. first, pics lie. they don't show everything. what i am seeing is the drag mark at the heel and it looks as if the heal was dragged backwards, not drug forwards. look at the drag mark where it ends furthest from the heel. thats a drag mark, not the end of the heel where it's trangular shaped. the heel is shallow and the ball deeper and there is no roll at the arch where weight was shifted from heel to toe if striding forward. the dirt forward of the toe is pushed forwards and shouldn't be in the manner it is if whatever left the track was striding forwards. there should also be slight drag marks at the toes where the foot was pulled up for the next step and there isn't. in my opinion this is all indicative of something stopping,stepping backwards to a degree and changing direction in one movement. if anything on the toe prints, whatever was walking forwards, somethig changed it's mind in midstride, it had picked it's foot up slightly, changed it's mind, set it's foot back down and changed directions.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Mike2k1
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Fletch you are exactley right...pictures do lie, and they don't tell you everything. The problem with this is we don't know what position the left foot is in. Forward, behind or beside the print. This is my scenerio of the print. You will see by the directional marks I made in the picture of foot slide movement I believe whatever made these prints stepped down and turned its head and torso to the right. This is indicated to me by the movement of the dirt and works in all left foot positions. The forward motion of the body moved to the right some because of the mud splash on the dry dirt is at an angle that would indicate a possible change in direction. This theory or your theory is pretty close together. With out the left foot print or a complete trackway it is hard to tell. Also with out the position of the creek in relation to this print or the direction of approach by DD in realtion to the print we can speculate but don't know for sure, but truthfully I can talk tracks all day Fletch. Pretty fun...I haven't nit- picked a print photo in awhile. :lol:
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Mike2k1
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Oh wanted to add, the dry peice of grass in the track I circled bothers me for some reason.....
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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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Alright, you guys are just confusing me now. I have to admit, I know little about tracking, so this is educational for me. I just think it looks wrong from the little I do know. Keep talking. I'm confused now, but it's still interesting. :D
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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fletch2820
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Cool armchair and mike. ok. Dirt will pile up highest on the side of the track the creature is heading in, Then next highest, where the fot was set down and it stopped, and it wasn't running. Striding forward leaves an altogether different track. Look at the pic again. Where is it piled highest and where is the track deepest? It is highest at the front and at the left side. Go make some mud of find some, take your shoes off and try it yourself. Step forward, stop, pick your foot up about an inch, set it back down, turn to your left and step back with your left foot pointed to the left, but here's the intersting part, keep looking in the direction you were traveling. Someting in front of that monkey gave it pause. It was looking frward and something caused it to wanna change directions. That.s how i would look for my left hand track, by looking at my right hand track and deciphering what it did by what was left of the track. It shifted it's weight to the left piling dirt until it cracked. Setting it's foot daown and stopping piled the dirt at the toes. It's weight went down farthest at the big toes which is right but the right hand side is to shallow for a forward stride. They should be more even. The pushing off made the left side of the track at the toes deeper than the right side. The grass u circled? Dunno, to many variables and for me has no bearing on anything. Could have been a blade that blew there and was stepped on. Could have been dropped by squatch himself adding some fiber to his diet. Dunno.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Arm Chair Squatcherback
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I see what you are saying now and it makes a lot of sense. I'd like to learn more. ;) Hopefully we can have some more tracks that we can anaylize soon.
The more I learn, the more I realize...I don't know much.
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medicdon
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Nice analysis Mike and Fletch, very detailed and accurate. My problem with track photos are what we can't see.
the terrain and the direction of travel in relation to it
stride length and most importantly changes in the stride length,i.e. did the animals stride shorten as if slowing to assess something seen or heard? Did it lengthen as it hurried for cover? Did it change directions for an obstacle?
A big part of tracking is figuring where the other step "should" be and accounting for it if it isn't. Based on the pictured track and its analysis so far, I would surmise that the animal paused in making the next step and then altered its course. Too bad we can't see the line of sight the animal had and what was in front of it when that step was taken. Just the musings of a longtime hunter and trapper. Great thread folks!
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fletch2820
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I agree don. all i have is this pic, and what i said still applies. pics lie. i may be totally out in left field here. but what i see in this pic and this pic alone i don't think i am. if u r lucky enough to find two tracks that show a stride then u can use a tracking stick to find the next one if u lose it.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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medicdon
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Here's a good thread from bff about tracking from a guy who does it for search and rescue teams. I thought y'all might enjoy it. limk
Don't run down the pic too fast, every little bit helps in solving the puzzle.
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fletch2820
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wanted to add something mike on your saying it turned it's head to the right. let's make a logical assumption. let's assume it is the critter that has the powerful build. the one i saw had to turn it's torso to swivel its head similar to an ape. it could only turn it's head so far. if it had turned it's head to the right enough to have to shift it's weight, the foot impression would have been much deeper on the right hand side of the track from heel to toe. stand up and try it. have your right foot in front and swivel your head far enough to have to shift the weight on that right hand foot.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Mike2k1
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fletch2820
Aug 16 2005, 10:26 PM
wanted to add something mike on your saying it turned it's head to the right. let's make a logical assumption. let's assume it is the critter that has the powerful build. the one i saw had to turn it's torso to swivel its head similar to an ape. it could only turn it's head so far. if it had turned it's head to the right enough to have to shift it's weight, the foot impression would have been much deeper on the right hand side of the track from heel to toe. stand up and try it. have your right foot in front and swivel your head far enough to have to shift the weight on that right hand foot.

That is assuming the left foot was behind. If the left foot was forward or to the side then the weight would shift inside. Look at the picture again.... the track is deeper on the inside, evident around the big toe and the heel.
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