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Blue Stone; Sitings
Topic Started: Mar 4 2008, 03:31 PM (1,457 Views)
Tom-tom
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Fletch,

After your last two posts in this thread, I have a new respect for your field research knowledge. It sounds like you have spent alot of time in the woods. Being that this is somewhat an empirically based science, your experience has exposed some of what works and some of what doesn't work out there. You do indeed have some field tricks that make good sense. Your posts also give other field researchers a validation that they are not alone in what they are seeing out in the wooded areas where encounters have been reported. :aplaud:

I do have a few questions and comments:

Quote:
 
I have had my best luck when I'm near where I've found formations and bedding areas or about halfway in between the damaged foliage and formations.


Assuming "damaged foliage" refers to branch/tree twists, breaks, bows, etc. and "formations" refers to unnatural positioning of sticks/logs, rocks (or other materials in the woods such as muscadines) into an organized arrangement or structure (e.g., tee-pees, Xs, organized piles), how many times or how much (percentage) have you seen "damage foliage" in one area and "formations" in another area within a particular research area? Fletch, I am asking this because you have me curious about this observation. I am going to start looking for this phenomenon in our areas.

Quote:
 
This has worked a few times for me and the last time it was a juvenile that was just as curious and it was looking through the limbs of a myrtle bush and whistling like a mockingbird at me for maybe a minute tops before it took off on all 4's.


Did it sound exactly like a mockingbird? More importantly, I have often wondered if Squatch can mimic all sorts of animal sounds heard in the woods. Any thoughts or comments?

Quote:
 
You can try chasing them like I have but it's about as much an exercise in futility as trying to catch smoke in your hands.


Amen Fletch..... The one I saw up in NY was running much faster than a man could and with longer strides. Your observation of "fire ants and neat piles" is very interesting.
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fletch2820
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Ok, by damaged I mean how you interpreted it.... breaks, twists, tree's pushed over, anything that can give a display of strength.
The higher from the ground the better within reason of course.
Contrary to the beliefs of some, I sincerely doubt they climb. Adults anyway.

Formations are also interpreted correctly, t-p's, arrangements, items moved from one location to another and anything done to arrange them in some fashion that may not make much sense to us but displays some type of forethought.
It doesn't necessarily have to be limbs either, it can be what one person who was with us in virginia found, stones placed together to hold some feathers upright.

This goes back to the case by case basis on observations, the only consistency I've found going case by case are bows. If there is water, there is a bow and vice versa because you may not find the water first but will find the bow first.

In virginia for instance the activity was so heavy that I've found formations as well as damage and bows within yards of one another.
I attribute this to adapting to the environment and felt that there was a pattern there that they understood amongst themselves, but my time being limited could not follow up.

I was in an actual neighborhood with heavy activity, i found bows near a creek but nothing else as I didn't have the time again.
I was only there for the weekend and was simply verifying there was activity for the group I belonged to.
The people I was staying with were the one who contacted us and there was enough inconsistencies in their story so that to many things were questionable and the only thing I could verify was actual activity and that was because I had seen five with my own eyes.

I prefer to do my looking in what i would term "virgin territory".
These are locations that are difficult for humans to access for no reason, that way I can eliminate human actions or activity from the equation.
A case in point, where I lived in Louisiana everything was based on timber for the various incomes in the end, so I needed to eliminate the pulpwood machinery from the equation of damaged foliage.

Louisiana and Ohio I'm terming as virgin areas.
I spent a little over 3 years in the same area in Louisiana and saw the exact same scenario 3 years running.

In Ohio I spent a year watching the same area at Salt Fork Lake.
As it happened there was a stream smack at the edge of where an area had damaged foliage, however, further away from the damaged foliage and roughly some 250 yards were formations that resembled someone attempting to build the walls of a miniature log cabin.
Based on the geographical layout and circumstances, I have to stick with my original theory of bows, damage and formation in that order due to the area they chose happened to have a stream running through it.

I have to digress as I also saw this in Louisiana as well as a small stream did run through my primary area and although small, it was still tagged with bows.
It was also a pain to access.

Here in Arkansas I can't say as my looking has just started.
I've found bows and a distance away I've found the beginnings of damages.
The damages are limbs some 8 feet or so above the ground and they've been snapped half in two.

Last weekend we were out looking and had walked a fire lane.
We followed the same fire lane coming out and a small green limb was lying on the road in plain view.
My eyes never stop moving and I make it a point to try and notice everything.
It wasn't there going in for a fact, but it was there coming out.
There were no tree's with limbs low enough for someone to snap off that I could see within a reasonable distance.
Shortly after that we heard footsteps made by what sounded like something with two legs behind us.
Shortly after that two of us saw a flash of medium length dark hair dart behind heavy brush.

In this area I can't say that everything will be a repeat of anything. Only time will tell.

Another thing that cannot be taken as gospel for all squatch is aggressiveness.

In Louisiana I was never physically bothered, but my pickup was "attacked' and ended up with a good sized dent in the passenger rear quarter panel.
I was also growled at and screamed at.

In Ohio, I was never physically attacked but have had stones, nuts, green pine cones and small limbs thrown at me, rather, in my direction at least.

I was never bothered in Virginia but again, the time there was limited.

In Texas, my very first siting went thus:

I opened the back door of the home and stepped out with a q-beam, I saw the animal as it was walking away, it turned to look at me with a "what" kind of look on it's face and continued into the tree line totally unconcerned with me.

The point to the aggressiveness is this, your dog may not bite, but who's to say mine won't?
I dunno and I doubt anyone else does either.
I know this, get between a wild animal who' s a mama and junior and a fight may ensue.
Something to keep in mind towards the end of this month and all summer.

To touch further on their locomotion, they'll run on all 4-s also and will leap similar to a deer when going through high brush.

Sounds:

Mockingbird- In texas the one I heard was extremely loud, much louder than a bird could actually do.
In louisiana it was at a normal pitch.
By naming it mockingbird I mean extremely musical and melodious, not much different than a mockingbird actually does.

Crows: Mainly Louisiana but Ohio also.
A normal pitch for a bird but a good indication they weren't birds was I saw the one in Louisiana and in Ohio the crows aren't fur covered and what I saw was a flash of fur from that exact area.

Owls.
Virginia, Louisiana and Ohio.
Never actually saw em, always at night and if they were owls, they were roughly the size of Volkswagons and there were way to many in one area.
Owls are extremely territorial and will kill one another protecting their territories.

Other sounds I've heard that were birds are sparrows, robins, hawks, ducks, geese and turkey gobbles and clucks.
I won't say I've seen squatch actually making these sounds because I havn't.
I will say though that when I hear a turkey, a hawk and a duck in the same darn tree, go and look at the tree and nothing is there or flew away, it does give one pause and make one wonder.

As to what works and what doesn't:

I've tried blasting sounds into the woods, whaling away on the side of a tree with a stick, had an owl call I tried, hung old cd's in tree's, [being a pc geek I had tons of those] left salt blocks, peed on things, destroyed things like formations, took a dog in the woods[ not a really good idea if you really like the dog] had a woman with me during her time, whistled and probably other things that don't come to mind at the moment.

What worked:

The salt block probably but can't say for sure because when I came back a few days later it was gone.
I've whistled a simple tune when I knew something was around but couldn't see it, on occasion I got a response. It just depends on the critter I guess.


The blasting the sounds and whaling away on the side of a tree only served to frighten everything else away.
I would think you would want everything to be as natural as possible then your subject will be as comfortable as possible and increase the likelihood of having an encounter to one degree or another.
Disrupting the forest defeats that purpose.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Tom-tom
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Fletch, once again, a wonderful post.

We have found some bows, but apparently not as many as you have. I think it is partly because we have not been looking for them near water bodies. Have you found bows anchored with a rock or log? Do you have some pictures of Bows you can post or email to me?

Quote:
 
Another thing that cannot be taken as gospel for all squatch is aggressiveness.


Agreed

Quote:
 
To touch further on their locomotion, they'll run on all 4-s also and will leap similar to a deer when going through high brush.


The leaping reference is interesting. Billy can tell you the name of a sighting report that also involves a squatch leaping. If I am remembering it correctly, a squatch was observed to leap from tree base to tree base as it was sneaking up to a snag a pig. The person that observed this was up in a tree strand.
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fletch2820
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I have a few pics left. If it isn't something new for me I don't bother anymore.
3 bows, 1 secured by a log, one the top is jammed into the ground and the last is "twin" bows that I thought was unique, the tops of both bows jammed into the ground.
I can't post pics as there is no icon for me to click on so I guess the permissions is either turned off or gilfritzed.
Yesterday my board was running off the side of the page making it hard to type, today it's ok.
I have 1 or 2 more pics others might find interesting.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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fletch2820
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I'm gonna try and post some links again.
They'll be to some of the sounds I've heard.
Some may have been heard on the net before but they're as close as I can come to what I've heard.

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/mock.mp3 <mockingbird>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/nite.mp3 <common nitehawk>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/barred1.mp3 <barred owl>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/barred2.mp3 <barred owl mating>

<combine the barred owl and mating as one recording, meaning, start with the barred owl and end with the mating call and you'll hear what I've heard several times.>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/bfscream.mp3 <scream? wail?>

This one I've heard and it is only similar and it wasn't continuous like the recording:
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/klamath.mp3

The last 4 I've only heard at night.
The last two gave me the creeps as I was by myself.

This one I'm also sure others have heard but bears a resemblance to what I've heard.
I repeat, it's only similar, I havn't heard this exactly.

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/sounds/weirdbf.mp3
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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PV2U
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Hey Fletch - neat stories!

The thing that first got me interested in the BF phenomenon was my being blasted awake at about 3 O'Clock in the a.m. but something that sounded like an enraged chimp outside of my house a few years ago. It was LOUD (my windows were open, as it was a warm night - fortunately we slept on the second floor)! As a kid, I spent a great deal of time in the woods and have never heard anything remotely close to it. I live near an almost 7,500 acre state park with abundant water, soo over time it sort of became self evident to me what I may have been dealing with.
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fletch2820
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BUT! BUT! PV!

Scientists clearly state there are no known primates that are native to the United States. :lol:

Evidently the other links worked so here are the bows I spoke of;

The first one has the top held down by jamming the top under a log, it's hard to see in the pic but the log is up and to the left.

The last two are secured by jamming the tops into the ground.
You may have to save them and brighten them up a bit..

The rest of the links are a few formations as well as a three toed track.

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/bows/bow1.jpg <louisiana>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/bows/bow2.jpg <lousiana>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/bows/bow3.jpg <louisiana>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/form/form1.jpg <virginia>

http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/form/form2.jpg <virginia>

Havta look close at this one, it resembles a house frame in a way, also virginia.
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/form/form3.jpg

t-p <louisiana>
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/form/form4.jpg

small track <louisiana>
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/fp/fp4.jpg

tiny track <louisiana>
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/fp/fp5.jpg

3-toed <texas>
http://www.geocities.com/fletch2820/tr6.jpg

The small and tiny tracks were found between the formations I found in Louisiana and the 'break line".

May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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bwillard
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Quote:
 
If there is water, there is a bow and vice versa because you may not find the water first but will find the bow first.


I have found this to be true particularly in southwestern Virginia. Everytime I visit there in the summer, we find these tree bows right before we run into water. True statement!
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Tom-tom
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Fletch,

Thanks for taking some time to post the bows and other stuff .... you have some neat findings. The bows you posted are similar to what I am finding, which is primarily saplings that have been bent over.

With Billy also finding "bows primarily near a water body," Fletch, I think you may have discovered a possible piece in this puzzle. However, what does it mean? Or should I say what are some possibilities why would squatch make bows near water bodies?

Tom




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fletch2820
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Quote:
 
why would squatch make bows near water bodies?


That has been hem hawed around through countless forums and has even been debated on whether or not squatch is even doing it as no one has actually seen one do it.
Common sense must prevail at some point otherwise, progress stops altogether.
Why does squatch do it?
For the same reason squatch does everything else that he does,,,,, for his own reasons.
As you stated, that's just one piece of the puzzle, we need to finish the puzzle and see what it reveals.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Tom-tom
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Quote:
 
whether or not squatch is even doing it as no one has actually seen one do it.


True, structures and damaged foliage has no clear link to squatch. But since I consistently find structures and damaged foliage in areas of reported sightings, to me they are quite valuable as a possible lead in our investigation.
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PV2U
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fletch2820
Mar 9 2008, 08:00 PM
BUT!  BUT!   PV!

Scientists clearly state there are no known primates that are native to the United States.  :lol:

Those scientists have obviously never been to one of my wife's family reunions! Just Kidding!! :P
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fletch2820
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Quote:
 
True, structures and damaged foliage has no clear link to squatch.


I beg to differ.

Science has studied every *known* animal in the United States.
Name one that has the strength as well as an opposable thumb that is capable of jamming the top of a saplings into the ground to such a depth that it remains jammed into the ground.
It has been argued that humans may be doing this.
I beg to differ again.
I stand 5'11" and tip the scales at an even 200 pounds,,,, no giant by any means but not really a small fella either.
I can't do it.
In fact, myself and two other fella's close to my size couldn't do it.
We tried.
Suppose a human could,
Is he dashing all across the lower 48 madly jamming saplings into the ground for the fun of it?
Could weather conditions cause this?
I sincerely doubt it.
I've been through 3 hurricanes and close enough to tornado's to be able to view the damage the next day.
Never saw a bow and bows have never been reported as a curiosity to either weather condition.

No known animals and not possible for a human to the extent they are being found and no weather anomaly.
These facts do leave a clear link to squatch and bows.
Eliminate everything known from the equation and you are left with the unknown as the answer,
Squatch is the unknown equation therefore I have to stand by my theory as I'm also coupling the fact I've had sitings in the same area's as bows I've found.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Tom-tom
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Fletch,

You make some good points. Yes, I see the link, even if it isn't written in school text books. DB Donlon, another good friend, has also pointed out that twists require a thumb to create.

Even though bigfoot's existence and the above-referenced link have not been established as scientific, irrufutable facts, as other researchers report similar findings concerning damaged foliage and unnatural structures in areas of sightings, the above-referenced link may become stronger among bigfoot researchers and soon may be seen as some sort of an accepted theory among bigfoot researchers. Why is this important?....accepted theories create a foundation of knowledge and various paradymes, which the whole bigfoot research community can build on.....
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bwillard
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Quote:
 
Those scientists have obviously never been to one of my wife's family reunions!


:lmao: Good one Paul!
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bwillard
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Quote:
 
Even though bigfoot's existence and the above-referenced link has not been established as scientific, irrufutable fact, as other researchers report similar findings concerning damaged foliage and unnatural structures in areas of sightings, the above-referenced link may become stronger among bigfoot researchers and soon may be seen as some sort of an accepted theory among bigfoot researchers.


Again, as we've said before, regardless of whether or not these formations are Bigfoot related or not, why not at least document them. Alot of researchers seem to have a problem with formations for some reason, but to just take a small amount of time to document a few things hurts no one.
Co-Founder of Sasquatch Watch of Virginia
www.sasquatchwatch.org
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fletch2820
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Just to keep the thread going and not change the topic,,,, let's look at it from this perspective.
I'm fairly certain of having 11 sitings to date.
Let's scratch two because I didn't see the entire animal to eliminate argument.
That leaves nine.
Let's scratch 5 more because I was called to the area by other's and therefore didn't find them on my own.
That leaves 4.
3 in Louisiana and 1 in Ohio.
4 isn't bad for this kind of thing.
How did I track them down?
By following what I've outlined above.
It doesn't prove anything to anyone, but it works for me.
Others who read this will poo poo it. That's life on the net.
Other's will take an interest and give it a try.
Hopefully they'll stick with it long enough to give it a fair shot.
I think then we'll see if I'm on the right track.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Tom-tom
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Fletch,

I find it fascinating that your discoveries are supported by subsequent sightings.

Ok, once you find the damaged foliage, structures, and possible resting areas, what are your specific surveillance strategies at the resting areas and/or between the bows and structures? I am assuming you used some sort of surveillance tactics and other strategies to get a peak at these creatures at your sighting locations.
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fletch2820
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I'm dressed "normally" for one.
I'm not wearing camo, something to hide my scent or anything of that nature. Just clothes adequate for being in the woods and combat boots, maybe a baseball hat,,,, that's it.
I'm walking in a manner intended to keep me as quiet as possible so as not to disrupt any widlife.
I'm not trying to hide myself, I want to be seen, but not seen as disruptive.
I just walk slow and after every 20 yards so so I stop and listen and get a better look around as I can study what's around me better.
I'm constantly looking no matter what and not at just the ground.
I look up towards the tops of the tree's as I'm watching for flocks of birds, especially crows.
If I find something I stop and inspect it, but I also keep looking around but then depend on my ears more to "watch" for me.
Deciphering what something is on the ground has earned me a close up siting.
I was kneeling down trying to get a closer look at some torn up ground and one had to stand up over a bush to get a better look at what I was doing, when I stood up, there he was looking a me with that "&hit! I messed up!" look on it's face.
I treat things like it's a fact finding tour, as it is just that.
I think my actions arouse curiosity in them as I don't disturb anything.
I've walked up on deer grazing as well as napping and just stood and watched them until they noticed me.
Seldom do I mess with berries or other edibles.
If they're around they notice this and notice I didn't disturb anything.
My just being there over and over and not disturbing anything may make them curious as I'm not an apparent threat.
May I borrow some of your patience please? Mine ran out long ago......Fletch.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." A. Einstein
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Tom-tom
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Thus far, Billy and I seem to have had better luck at night than during the day. Most of our suspected encounters were occasionally seeing possible eyeshine and more frequently hearing unusal sounds (e.g., bipedal foot falls, howls, chatter, whistles, thumps, grunts, whoops, tree knocks, rocks hit against one another) using bionic ears set up fifty from us. We've had sticks thrown at us on many occasions. Two other encounters Billy and I had were in NJ and TX. All of these events was at night and not during the daytime. My sighting up in NY was during a full moon and Billy had a possible sighting at night too. Billy's kids had there sighting at dusk.

I believe we may may be going at it incorrectly for capturing a daytime encounter.
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